Need some wiring help.

[GuitarManMike]

Hey guys I've got some questions about the upcoming wiring of my project guitar that im gonna do, and I was hoping you guys could help me out. First off I had a question about Audio/Linear Pots, I realize there is a difference in how the pot "tapers" off but Im not sure which are supposed to be used for what. I.e What types of pots should I use for what controls.

My second question is about what resistence pot I should use with a SD CoolRails Middle Pickup, because its technically a humbucker which suggests I use a 500k pot, but its got a fatter more single coil sound I believe so im not sure which to use for that.

My third question is about the specific wiring im trying to achieve, which I will ask after I get some more info on my first two questions.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys/girls.

Michael

 

[GuitarManMike]

Re: Need some wiring help.

Okay I think I found answers to my both my questions previosly posted so I guess Ill try to post my thoughts on what I want to accomplish. I've got a full sized humbucker bridge(SD). A single coil sized humbucker(SD) in the mid, and a single coil fender pickup in the neck. I want the Neck/Mid volume to be on the same pot, and the Neck/Mid Tone to be on the same pot as well (Thats what the concentric pots are for. 250k is for the neck, 500k for the middle). Then the bridge to have its own 500k pots. Forgot to mention the humbuckers are 4 conductor style and the strat is 2 obviously.

Now im a complete newb when it comes to electronics so I have no idea if you can mix different resistence pots.

Now for the pickup selector you guys tell me if a super switch is needed or recommended for this job or not.

Also I was just thinking of (what i hope is basic) setup.

1. Neck
2. Neck/Mid
3. Neck/Mid/Bridge
4. Mid/Bridge
5. Bridge
(all series with each other)

Now I realize there is alot of redundency in that setup because all the other positions can be done in position 3 by rolling the volumes of the pickups off, so I am open to any and all suggestions as to what I should do with this pickup arrangement. And Ive also included my "artist rendering" lol of what I think it will look like so if anyone wants to help me fill it out, or even use their own schematic that would be very helpful, I just find that schematic easy to follow.

Thanks for any help you may provide.

View attachment 9358

 

[GuitarManMike]

Re: Need some wiring help.

bump.

Can no one help me on this? Looking around it seems that Artie is the resident wiring tech master. Any suggestions?

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some wiring help.

Hey Mike. Welcome to the forum. I saw this thread, but just have been swamped lately. Also, our "micro-processor-controlled" dryer just went on the blink, and my wife, (and clean underwear), trumps all you guys.

I'll give you a longer, (better), answer when I get home from work tonight.

 

[Crossrhoads2005]

Re: Need some wiring help.

You should always be using log or audion taper pots in guitars. The reason why is our hearing sensitvity in our ears are logrithmic.

In terms that make sense, in order for our ears to sense that the volume of something has doubled, the source producing the sound has to have 10 times the power (This also means that a 100w amp is NOT twice as loud as a 50w amp)

Log or audio taper pots (same thing, two names) work so that if you want aproximatly half the volume (10 dB loss is 1/2 the volume), you would set your guitar at 5 (assuming it is on a scale of 0 to 10).

Linear pots (if used in a guitar) will NOT have aproximatly half of the volume, but will have a drop of about 3 dB at the 5 position (vs 10dB drop on a log taper pot)

 

[Crossrhoads2005]

Re: Need some wiring help.

A suggestion for the Swtich to use.
I did this on my friends guitar with a similar setup

I placed the two single coils on their own 3-way swtich and ran those though a single 500K pot with a very small capacitor grounding the pickups to reduce the brittle high end

I then ran the bridge humbucker through a single 500k pot.

I then took the two volumes and ran them past the tone control, then to the output jack.

You can also use a tele 4 way switch instead of the 3 way to get a setup on the switch as Off/middle/middle+neck/neck

If you want a wiring diargam I can draw one up

 

[MikeS]

Re: Need some wiring help.

FWIW, the audio taper rules apply to volume controls more than tone controls. There's no real rule of thumb other than what your ears tell you. While I use audio taper for volume control, I tend to find a more even roll-off when using linear taper for tone controls. It's purely personal preference, though.

That switching will require a superswitch. Getting all three in series in position three will be the tricky part (I'm not even going to guarantee it's possible). If Artie doesn't get to it I may be able to take a stab at it later. He's far more clever than I when it comes to these switches, though, but I can fumble my way to a solution eventually.

My only other word of caution is that 5-way 4-pole switches like a superswitch are much larger than typical 5-way switches. Combine that with two concentric pots, two standard pots, 3 capacitors and all the wiring and that control cavity is getting very full. For that reason I might suggest using a concentric pot for the bridge volume and tone. I'm purely speaking from experience, as I have a strat with a superswitch, a single push pull, and two CTS pots and by the time I wired in the caps and wiring the cavity was packed full... no room for a fourth pot. Do what you have to, just thought I'd serve up the warning.

 

[GuitarManMike]

Re: Need some wiring help.

Hey Mike. Welcome to the forum. I saw this thread, but just have been swamped lately. Also, our "micro-processor-controlled" dryer just went on the blink, and my wife, (and clean underwear), trumps all you guys.

I'll give you a longer, (better), answer when I get home from work tonight.

No problem, Im not in a rush for a specific wiring or anything Im just trying to find out whats possible so that i can order the parts.

Also Mike S made a good point about the space constraint but If it starts to get too crowded I would probably just route some more space into the control cavity as this is by no means a vintage body that I want to keep stock.

The thing with crossrhoads suggestion is that my middle pickup is a humbucker not a single coil and im probably gonna use a 500k for the middle and bridge buckers, and a 250k for the neck.

 

[Crossrhoads2005]

Re: Need some wiring help.

No problem, Im not in a rush for a specific wiring or anything Im just trying to find out whats possible so that i can order the parts.

Also Mike S made a good point about the space constraint but If it starts to get too crowded I would probably just route some more space into the control cavity as this is by no means a vintage body that I want to keep stock.

The thing with crossrhoads suggestion is that my middle pickup is a humbucker not a single coil and im probably gonna use a 500k for the middle and bridge buckers, and a 250k for the neck.

OOPS

let me rewrite.........

A suggestion for the Swtich to use.
I did this on my friends guitar with a similar setup

place the two HUMBUCKERS on their own 3-way swtich and run those though a single 500K pot (a volume for the Bridge and middle pickups)

run the NECK single coil through a single 500k pot w/ a very small capactior to ground to reduce the brittle high

then take the two volumes and ran them past the tone control, then to the output jack.

You can also use a tele 4 way switch instead of the 3 way to get a setup on the switch as Off/middle/middle+bridge/bridge

 

[GuitarManMike]

Re: Need some wiring help.

ahh I see but the reason I want seperate volume for the bridge from the neck/middle is so I can turn off the neck and middle pickups and do that sort of kill switchey thing with the selector like you can do on LP's. I guess you could still do it with that setup but it would be between the neck/middle as opposed to the middle/bridge

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some wiring help.

While most people do use audio-taper pots, I'm not sure the conventional logic holds up in guitar applications. The use of audio pots comes from use in stereo applications. You'ld want a volume taper that matched the human hearing log scale. But, in a stereo app, the music would probably be the dominant noise. As turned the volume up and down, you changed the volume of the all the music together. But in a live band situation, you're only changing the volume of your own instrument. The ambient volume level stays the same and your ear doesn't adjust in a log pattern if at all. It might be better to have the volume do a linear taper so that you have more precise control over your blend.

Then again . . . if you play solo, ignore everything I just said.

 

[GuitarManMike]

Re: Need some wiring help.

While most people do use audio-taper pots, I'm not sure the conventional logic holds up in guitar applications. The use of audio pots comes from use in stereo applications. You'ld want a volume taper that matched the human hearing log scale. But, in a stereo app, the music would probably be the dominant noise. As turned the volume up and down, you changed the volume of the all the music together. But in a live band situation, you're only changing the volume of your own instrument. The ambient volume level stays the same and your ear doesn't adjust in a log pattern if at all. It might be better to have the volume do a linear taper so that you have more precise control over your blend.

Then again . . . if you play solo, ignore everything I just said.

That sort of makes sense, but i mostly play solo, and even when I do play with others i bet id be able to live with it.

Do you think what Im trying to do is possible? Or would u suggest something else?

 

[GuitarManMike]

Re: Need some wiring help.

bump

 

[Crossrhoads2005]

Re: Need some wiring help.

If you get 3 concentric pots and devote each concentric pot to its own pickup (bridge volume/bridge tone on one ect.) then you can EASILY use a standard 5 way switch, but it would be in paralell NOT in Series (typically guitars switches put pickups in paralell)

AND

There would not be any huge wiring disaster. It is actually quite simple

 

[GuitarManMike]

Re: Need some wiring help.

If you get 3 concentric pots and devote each concentric pot to its own pickup (bridge volume/bridge tone on one ect.) then you can EASILY use a standard 5 way switch, but it would be in paralell NOT in Series (typically guitars switches put pickups in paralell)

AND

There would not be any huge wiring disaster. It is actually quite simple

I was thinking about doing it that way actually. I dont even know what I want now I'll have to think it over some more.

EDIT:
Okay I thought about it actually. I think thats what im going to do, a 250k/250k Neck CPot a 500k/500k Mid Cpot and a 500k/500k Bridge Cpot.

1. Neck
2. Neck/Mid
3. Neck/Mid/Bridge (if its possible, if not just Middle pickup)
4. Mid/Bridge
5. Bridge

What ever regular switching is as in the pickups being in series or parrallel. Would I need a super switch with this?

 

[Crossrhoads2005]

Re: Need some wiring help.

If you wanted to have all three pickups run at the same time in the third position, you would need a super switch

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some wiring help.

Okay I thought about it actually. I think thats what im going to do, a 250k/250k Neck CPot a 500k/500k Mid Cpot and a 500k/500k Bridge Cpot.

When you get into a passive mixer like this, don't forget the oddball pickup "load". When you have all three pups on, they're going to "see" a 125k load. Are you sure thats what you want? Neck and middle together will see 166k, and middle/bridge will see 250k.

 

[GuitarManMike]

Re: Need some wiring help.

hmm not really, should i maybe go middle in pos. 3 then so that it has a 500k load? also is there any way to get around the pos2 and 4 loads by adding another resitor for that position or will that not do any thing?

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some wiring help.

hmm not really, should i maybe go middle in pos. 3 then so that it has a 500k load? also is there any way to get around the pos2 and 4 loads by adding another resitor for that position or will that not do any thing?

Adding another resistor will lower the load even farther. If you used a Superswitch, you can wire it for "load balancing". I think I have something like this already done up in my archives. I'll take a look and report back.

 

[Artie]

Re: Need some wiring help.

If you weren't using concentric pots, I'd have you use 1M pots. That way, you could select proper resistors to get the exact balance you want. But since you are using concentrics, you're a little more limited to what is available. 500k's is probably the best you can do. With that in mind, here's one way to approach it:

This will give you 500k for the bridge alone, and 250k for the other positions, except #3. When you have all three pups on, there's no way to get around a 167k load. Thats the limiting factor of using 500k pots.

Edit: Btw: For simplicity, I didn't show the tone pots. They simply connect between each of the three "pup" corners and then to ground. (With their caps.)

The red squares, like this: (One tone control for each red square.)