Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

[jmcorey]

So I love my new Peavey tube amp.

I was at a rehearsal last night and was playing my GT-3 into it. Loved the effects, tone way better than through my old Fender solid state. Then just at the end, I plugged the guitar straight into the amp. Whoa - much better dynamics and tone. The GT-3 (and I have read the GT-6 does this too) added treble to the signal. Not sure if it is due to the digitization, or what. But that was kind of amazing to me, really, since I thought that all my guitars have sounded really bright - and it was the GT-3 all along! :smack:

It wasn't a bad sound, just had less dynamics and was brighter. I just never had the other equipment to figure this out.

Are all digital multi effects going to do this? Any others free of this (rack mount stuff, magic stomp, POD xt-live (I doubt this one would be free of it)? Is this why people use analog effects with true bypass?

Thanks all

 

[shreder75]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

So I love my new Peavey tube amp.

I was at a rehearsal last night and was playing my GT-3 into it. Loved the effects, tone way better than through my old Fender solid state. Then just at the end, I plugged the guitar straight into the amp. Whoa - much better dynamics and tone. The GT-3 (and I have read the GT-6 does this too) added treble to the signal. Not sure if it is due to the digitization, or what. But that was kind of amazing to me, really, since I thought that all my guitars have sounded really bright - and it was the GT-3 all along! :smack:

It wasn't a bad sound, just had less dynamics and was brighter. I just never had the other equipment to figure this out.

Are all digital multi effects going to do this? Any others free of this (rack mount stuff, magic stomp, POD xt-live (I doubt this one would be free of it)? Is this why people use analog effects with true bypass?

Thanks all

I had a rocktron intellfx when I had my tube stuff..and that doesn't color your sound at all....might wanna look into that..and they don't cost that much...

I've been outta the whole tube/rack mount thing for awhile so they probably have had tow other versions since I had mine..lol....

 

[Hellion]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

Anytime you process a signal prior to the amp you're going to change the tonal characteristics of the guitar. It seems to be a bit more profound with a digital to analog signal change. And since your guitar is analog, too, the signal is switching from analog to digital back to analog, so some of that signal is lost. That's probably why the die-hard tone freaks prefer to run straight into the amp. I myself am not one of those, I like a wet signal and modify it to compensate.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

Anytime you process a signal prior to the amp you're going to change the tonal characteristics of the guitar. It seems to be a bit more profound with a digital to analog signal change. And since your guitar is analog, too, the signal is switching from analog to digital back to analog, so some of that signal is lost. That's probably why the die-hard tone freaks prefer to run straight into the amp. I myself am not one of those, I like a wet signal and modify it to compensate.

What kind of modifications do you use? What kind of effects, digital, or analog? True bypass, or not?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Mac-P]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

Is this why people use analog effects with true bypass?

Yes. Exactly. :burnout:

 

[Hellion]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

What kind of modifications do you use? What kind of effects, digital, or analog? True bypass, or not?

Thanks,

Joe

My main processor is admittedly archaic, but it's a Digitech GSP-5. I have it set up so that the EQ and Chorus are the same for every patch (don't ask how they're set--it's the end result of 13 years of onstage modification, they just sound right to me), but the echo and distortion are changed in accordance to the patch. The entire system is rack mounted. The thing I think that helps in my case is I also run a DBX 163x compressor in front of the GSP-5, and a BBE Sonic Maximizer after it, so it only goes through one system that's digital.

 

[B2D]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

I used to get complaints all the time at Guitar Center when people bought GT6's as effects engines... "I stuck it in the loop of my recto and it ruined the tone but sounds great in front of the amp, WTF man?" Guess what I found out from them?

EVERY STINKING ONE OF THEM FORGOT TO TURN THE GT6'S PREAMP OFF!!!

People forget that the GT6 is not merely an effects pedal, it's a preamp and speaker simulator as well. Abything you stick in the effects loop is gonna alter tone to some extent but if you stick a whole nother preamp thats designed to warp your town around ANYWAY well then you're askin for it man.

If you just want to use the GT as an effects engine, then what you need to do is make sure to turn the preamp functions, mic emulation, and speaker simulation OFF. I do this with my GT5 (I use a GT5 solely for effects in my loop) and the change to the tone is VERY minimal. If you don't turn those three things off then your sound is gonna change every time you switch patches. Just because the distortion's not on doesn't mean the preamp isnt.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

This is why I'm changing around my pedalboard (some of you may have noticed I've sold a few things through the gear section).

I haven't noticed any significant tone change with the Boss NS-2, Boss TU-2, MXR Phase 90 etc., but I am afraid that too many pedals like that will alter the dynamics. As it is now, I'm slowly changing everything over to true bypass. To most people, I'm sure they won't notice, but if you're like me and you're anal-retentive about such things, you're going to want the signal as pure as possible.

I'll be purchasing some Bill Lawrence patch cables soon to link the pedals in my chain (must be much better than the $10 multicolored cable packages I have now) and my two big cables (one to the guitar, one to the amp) are Bayou (an upgrade IMHO from Planet Waves and they sound fantastic, especially for the price).

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

A good thing to own for your pedalboard, if you use tonesucking pedals, is a single or dual loop box, available at pedalboard.com Besides removing them from the loop, you can set your FX up, then bring them in and out with one button. I like the dual loop box, because I can also send the signal to a silent tuner, muting the amp.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

I used to get complaints all the time at Guitar Center when people bought GT6's as effects engines... "I stuck it in the loop of my recto and it ruined the tone but sounds great in front of the amp, WTF man?" Guess what I found out from them?

EVERY STINKING ONE OF THEM FORGOT TO TURN THE GT6'S PREAMP OFF!!!

People forget that the GT6 is not merely an effects pedal, it's a preamp and speaker simulator as well. Abything you stick in the effects loop is gonna alter tone to some extent but if you stick a whole nother preamp thats designed to warp your town around ANYWAY well then you're askin for it man.

If you just want to use the GT as an effects engine, then what you need to do is make sure to turn the preamp functions, mic emulation, and speaker simulation OFF. I do this with my GT5 (I use a GT5 solely for effects in my loop) and the change to the tone is VERY minimal. If you don't turn those three things off then your sound is gonna change every time you switch patches. Just because the distortion's not on doesn't mean the preamp isnt.

OK, my preamp was off. Do I still need to turn off any speaker simulations and mic emulation is off. I think I can do that by switching the output to "guitar amp combo", yes, B2D?

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

A good thing to own for your pedalboard, if you use tonesucking pedals, is a single or dual loop box, available at pedalboard.com Besides removing them from the loop, you can set your FX up, then bring them in and out with one button. I like the dual loop box, because I can also send the signal to a silent tuner, muting the amp.

Great idea.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

The only two 'tonesuckers' I have are my two Line 6 pedals.....not bad, but they still aren't true bypass. I solved the problem by putting them on a separate loop.

My pedalboard is virtually silent and equal to straight cable. Powered by Voodoo Lab PPII

Fulltone Wah
T. Rex Mudhoney
Klon OD
loopbox..............so I can insert the Line 6's, or mute the signal to tuner
ADA Flange
Fulltone Choralflange......out to amp.

 

[BluesNRock87]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

So I love my new Peavey tube amp.

I was at a rehearsal last night and was playing my GT-3 into it. Loved the effects, tone way better than through my old Fender solid state. Then just at the end, I plugged the guitar straight into the amp. Whoa - much better dynamics and tone. The GT-3 (and I have read the GT-6 does this too) added treble to the signal. Not sure if it is due to the digitization, or what. But that was kind of amazing to me, really, since I thought that all my guitars have sounded really bright - and it was the GT-3 all along! :smack:

It wasn't a bad sound, just had less dynamics and was brighter. I just never had the other equipment to figure this out.

Are all digital multi effects going to do this? Any others free of this (rack mount stuff, magic stomp, POD xt-live (I doubt this one would be free of it)? Is this why people use analog effects with true bypass?

Thanks all

why i just plug straight in 95% of the time. When i dont, my effects arent exactly notoriosly bad for tone coloring (other than the wah)...

 

[B2D]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

OK, my preamp was off. Do I still need to turn off any speaker simulations and mic emulation is off. I think I can do that by switching the output to "guitar amp combo", yes, B2D?

Yes, the speaker and mic simulations will alter the overall tone. Also make sure there's not any global EQ active unless you WANT it to be active.

And if you're in an effects loop set the controls accordingly... if you put it in front of the amp make sure the output is right becasue sometimes the separate guitar amp/line controls buffer or alter the tone in a way that will be good for one setup but bad for the other. Whats good for the goose ain't necessarily good for the gander.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

Yes, the speaker and mic simulations will alter the overall tone. Also make sure there's not any global EQ active unless you WANT it to be active.

And if you're in an effects loop set the controls accordingly... if you put it in front of the amp make sure the output is right becasue sometimes the separate guitar amp/line controls buffer or alter the tone in a way that will be good for one setup but bad for the other. Whats good for the goose ain't necessarily good for the gander.

Thanks, definitely the thing to try next time I play!

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

meh, i only use a vox wah and a dunlop roto-vibe vibrato chorus pedal.

 

[BornToShred]

Re: Negative tone coloration from multieffects pedals into tube amp!

Digital multi-FX suck the life out of your tone?
No sh!t, Sherlock.