neodymium magnets

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Ventilator

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Neodymium magnets from what I've read are the strongest permanent magnets around. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a stronger magnet mean a higher output? I've been looking into it and custom made neodymium magnets aren't that expensive to produce on an individual basis.

How hard would it be to replace the magnets in an existing pickup with neodymium ones? Has anyone experimented with this yet? If so, how did they affect the tone of the guitar?
 
Re: neodymium magnets

no, I wish it would mean a superhot pickup. I've got the hottest version of the qtuner, and its really not that hot, eventhough it's got a 16k DC coils and 2 huge neodym magnets.

Though, these pickups aren't that efficiently designed. a hybrid of the '59 with hex polepieces and the JB with screw polepieces with the neodymium maagnet is MUCH more efficient, and thus hot. super super hot, tight, screaming, squeeling and huge sounding.
 
Re: neodymium magnets

GuitarFetish offers the Neodymium magnets in "Neovins" for Strats & Teles. They look like boring old single coils but they're HBs. They claim noiseless SC tone (who doesn't). They offer various winds. They are cheap enough to experiment with. I haven't tried them yet, but may give them a go in the not too distant future......
 
Re: neodymium magnets

The advantage of Neodymium is that it gives a strong magnetic field for a given weight magnet. This is a big deal in a speaker, where magnets are large - you can drastically cut the weight of a combo amp or quad cab using small neo magnets in place of large heavy ceramic ones.

In guitars, tone is the goal, and weight reduction from magnet swaps in negligible. You don't really need a stronger magnetic field - existing ceramic and Alnico magnets are already capable of generating too much string pull if you're not careful.

The one worthwhile use of neodymium in guitar pickups that I can think of is space savings. If you want to design some kind of new high-tech pickup with lots of "stuff" in it, but need to cram it all into traditional pickup form factors, then neo might give you some extra space.
 
Re: neodymium magnets

All experiments I`ve tried or seen so far that mate traditional pickup technology with large neodymium bar or rod magnets have led to massive loss of sustain due to excessive string pull, even with the PU screwed down so far you think it´s going to come out the back of the guitar.

Q tuners are the Only PU I´ve seen to date that use a Neodymium mag and sound good... not traditional, but good. Their design however is quite the departure from traditional humbuckers...
 
Re: neodymium magnets

Zerberus said:
All experiments I`ve tried or seen so far that mate traditional pickup technology with large neodymium bar or rod magnets have led to massive loss of sustain due to excessive string pull, even with the PU screwed down so far you think it´s going to come out the back of the guitar.

Q tuners are the Only PU I´ve seen to date that use a Neodymium mag and sound good... not traditional, but good. Their design however is quite the departure from traditional humbuckers...
Click to expand...

they're tone is indeed something you have to get used to. The special thing is that the coils are free floating: they arent' wrapped around a bobbin, and they're turned 90 degrees. there are 2 huge neodym magnets in the pickup, and the stringpull isn't that excessive.

I am designing a pickup which is a bit like a hybrid, with a neodym magnet. I will compare it with its sibling which will get an alnico 8. I think the neodym won't have more output than the alnico8, in fact, the A8 will ahve MORE output. The JB is hotter than the hottest qtuner pickup, for example.
 
Re: neodymium magnets

orpheo said:
they're tone is indeed something you have to get used to. The special thing is that the coils are free floating: they arent' wrapped around a bobbin, and they're turned 90 degrees. there are 2 huge neodym magnets in the pickup, and the stringpull isn't that excessive.

I am designing a pickup which is a bit like a hybrid, with a neodym magnet. I will compare it with its sibling which will get an alnico 8. I think the neodym won't have more output than the alnico8, in fact, the A8 will ahve MORE output. The JB is hotter than the hottest qtuner pickup, for example.
Click to expand...

Yes, but this is a result of the pickup´s unique design and not of weak magnets.

A neodymium Magnet can have up to 14 kiloGauss, compared to the roughly 5 kiloGauss of some of the stronger ceramic magnets. Surface Flux density on neodymium is approximately 1000 gauss, the heaviest ceramics weigh in at about 600.

I guarantee you that any pickup design with a neodymium magnet will have significantly more output than the same pickup with the same size magnet(s) made out of AlNiCo X, CuNiFe, Samarium Cobalt or Ceramics. Rudimentary physics and basic understanding of magnetic flux fields dictate this without exception. And all of the experimments hinted at above verify this. Huge output, but no sustain due to excessive string pull.... Think of a guitar with chronic, untreatable "Stratitis" that has 3 Tubescreamers behind it. No sustain, but VERY loud :)
 
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Re: neodymium magnets

I put some Neodymium Pole Magnets in some Dimarzio distortions.
The sustain is not as long as with my Epi LP which is sporting a hacked Epi pup and an SH-1n [SD], but quite usable. Nor is the output any greater to any large degree,than it was before the Neodymiums.
The noticeable difference is the sound/tone.It's Bright toward the metallic side of bright.It is a very defined sound from top to bottom.I think they sound good for rhythm work.I haven't really ventured into the soloing side with them.:14:

EDIT:I was looking for the receipt for the magnets and ran across the Dimarzio pups receipt. Apparently they're a Dual sound and a Super Distortion.
 
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Re: neodymium magnets

^^ OK, there appear to be some exceptions to my statement... now you´ve got me considering fiddling around with them myself again.... :beerchug:
 
Re: neodymium magnets

The more I read about it, the more I think neodymium magnets are just too bloody strong for comfort!



aaaah, whats this with the censurship... some words which are considered 'regular' and 'normal' across the 'big pond' are censored...
 
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Re: neodymium magnets

The magnets I use are 4mm x 10mm. there are 3 x 10 available which have a reduced strength by comparison.
I was about to make a clip to give you an idea of what it sounds like but I've had to do some maintenance on one Pup[I will try again later maybe]. If you don't affix the magnets in place securely they can slip and be attracted to the nearest metal,the string above[the strength of them obviously].
:banghead: one slipped down to the base plate.I have to refit it and fix it in place[A drop of super glue].
I took the guitar they're in, to The Jam we had in Melbourne. Everyone who played it liked the guitar.I don't think anyone was aware that it was fitted with the Neodymiums.[It was mentioned at some stage].:14:
 
Re: neodymium magnets

orpheo said:
no, I wish it would mean a superhot pickup. I've got the hottest version of the qtuner, and its really not that hot, eventhough it's got a 16k DC coils and 2 huge neodym magnets.

Though, these pickups aren't that efficiently designed. a hybrid of the '59 with hex polepieces and the JB with screw polepieces with the neodymium maagnet is MUCH more efficient, and thus hot. super super hot, tight, screaming, squeeling and huge sounding.
Click to expand...

Well, I suspect it's hardly low output either.
Considering how clear and articulate they are anyway, I doubt it matters you have to turn the gain up a little higher than using a normal high output alnico or ceramic pickup.
 
Re: neodymium magnets

GoldenVulture said:
The magnets I use are 4mm x 10mm. there are 3 x 10 available which have a reduced strength by comparison.
I was about to make a clip to give you an idea of what it sounds like but I've had to do some maintenance on one Pup[I will try again later maybe]. If you don't affix the magnets in place securely they can slip and be attracted to the nearest metal,the string above[the strength of them obviously].
:banghead: one slipped down to the base plate.I have to refit it and fix it in place[A drop of super glue].
I took the guitar they're in, to The Jam we had in Melbourne. Everyone who played it liked the guitar.I don't think anyone was aware that it was fitted with the Neodymiums.[It was mentioned at some stage].:14:
Click to expand...

That had Neodymiums?
I was wondering why it had this unique tone as you were playing it. Sounds great bro
 
Re: neodymium magnets

That had Neodymiums?
I was wondering why it had this unique tone as you were playing it. Sounds great bro
Click to expand...
Thanks Harry. I had some of the pole magnets at the meet. I gave some to Adam to play with and he lent me his SH-1n to play with.I pointed out to him that the Framus had them in it.Will and Pontiac Jack both liked the guitar ,but I'm not sure if they meant playing it and/or the sound of it.
 
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Re: neodymium magnets

Petrovsk Mizinski said:
Well, I suspect it's hardly low output either.
Considering how clear and articulate they are anyway, I doubt it matters you have to turn the gain up a little higher than using a normal high output alnico or ceramic pickup.
Click to expand...

with the qtuners, its like the JB, regaring the output. I was hoping for much more, but I don't think that's possible...
 
Re: neodymium magnets

Rare Earth Magnets are all the rage in Speaker production. As an audiophile that works for a 65 year old millionaire audiophile, I've seen every variation of magnet use in speakers. Rare earth speakers are much lighter(an 18" can be picked up with one hand!) without sacrificing sound. Since China was the only source for a while, prices have been too high for them to be used by numerous manufacturers. But recently found deposits in Middle America and elsewhere has caused prices to drop. That said, Alnico is the preferred magnet to both me, my friend, and every other person we talk to. Supply isn't what it used to be, so manufacturers have replaced Alnico. As for pickups, I don't see the benefits. You could use a smaller bar, but the weight difference wouldn't be noticeable. I experiment a lot (made an amp out of a McIntosh MC110 Z pre amp, mcintosh all tube power amp, a Peavy electronic crossover feeding a cab with 3 10" Alnico Jensons (ones used in the big boy 6 10" Silvertone) hooked to low frequency crossover output and 4 4"speakers hooked to High frequency output of crossover (i built a type of effects loop since guitar really doesn't put out signal needed to engage crossover. I get Jack White's signature tone all the way to 50s cleans and surf rock snap utilizing the fender reverb tank salvaged from a fender stage 185. I'm going to build some rare earth magnets tomorrow. I'll post results. Already have 42 awg copper wire, bolts to act as polepieces, and a rare earth bar. Don't forget the sewing machine for winding, wax for potting, and Teflon tape. Ha.
 
Re: neodymium magnets

I put a pair of double thick N48 Neodymiums in a DD. My ears have not forgiven me. Neither have the neighborhood dogs.
 
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