New amp for metal

Re: New amp for metal

Maybe a Bogner Ubershall!? Great cleans and one of the most brutal distortions out there!

Also a Koch Powertone II is something to consider, it's basicly the dutch equivalent of a Bogner xtc with much more gain on tap!

I agree on the od thing sounding great, but it does complicate things.
 
Re: New amp for metal

DeadSkinSlayer3 said:
How long did you spend with it, what cabinet, what axe, and did you try an OD infront? You need to set these up properly for them to even sound halfway decent, and I can garuntee you that you didn't have it setup properly. If you like the 5150 and don't like the Rectifier, you definately didn't have it setup right.
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I don't buy the 'not setting it up properly' with the whole rectifier series of amps...I hear it alot...'dude, you gotta take the time to dial it in properly', etc, etc..as if there's one magic setting that works for these that mesa doesn't tell anybody about..you shouldn't have to work so hard to get a tone that's pleasing to you out of a high end amp like that.

what I've found is that people are in one of two camps with the rectifiers..they either love them or hate them..obviously, Bazz doesn't like the rectos...
 
Re: New amp for metal

Ever consider getting an amp you like the lead channel on and having the clean channel modifyed?

Or visaversa?
 
Re: New amp for metal

BigBazz said:
Thanks :O, ive never seen one of them.

How much over 2k?

that amp looks amazing, just what im looking for, but how does it sound.

ooh and does it come with 6L6 in any form? i prefere 6L6 over EL34.
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Yes they do a 6L6 version. Thomann, a German company do them for £2046 which includes VAT with just a small shipping charge. I've used them before and they are spot on.

http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_artikel-170106.html
 
Re: New amp for metal

Nightburst said:
Maybe a Bogner Ubershall!? Great cleans and one of the most brutal distortions out there!

Also a Koch Powertone II is something to consider, it's basicly the dutch equivalent of a Bogner xtc with much more gain on tap!
Click to expand...
Those were the two amps that I was going to suggest. :reporter:
 
Re: New amp for metal

DeadSkinSlayer3 said:
How long did you spend with it, what cabinet, what axe, and did you try an OD infront? You need to set these up properly for them to even sound halfway decent, and I can garuntee you that you didn't have it setup properly. If you like the 5150 and don't like the Rectifier, you definately didn't have it setup right.
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How can you say that...any of that?!

Not every body wants/needs an OD in front of their amp...

How can you be sure he didn't have it set up right...he said, "I had my 5150 properly biased (the tech had to install a bias pot) with JJ 6L6's" JJ's are good tubes, the bias was set up by a tech...that sounds right to me...

Then your last statement..."If you like the 5150 and don't like the Rectifier, you definately didn't have it setup right." Again...what are you basing this on...just because you feel that the Mesa is better than the 5150 doesn't make it so...
 
Re: New amp for metal

Ryan,

Looking at the list of amps you mentioned either of the Diezels would do what you are asking about...to be honest I know little to nothing about either of the other amps you mentioned but I can tell you that the Bogner Ubershall is a killer amp even thought it's not on your list!

Good luck!
 
Re: New amp for metal

the guy who invented fire said:
How can you say that...any of that?!

Not every body wants/needs an OD in front of their amp...

How can you be sure he didn't have it set up right...he said, "I had my 5150 properly biased (the tech had to install a bias pot) with JJ 6L6's" JJ's are good tubes, the bias was set up by a tech...that sounds right to me...

Then your last statement..."If you like the 5150 and don't like the Rectifier, you definately didn't have it setup right." Again...what are you basing this on...just because you feel that the Mesa is better than the 5150 doesn't make it so...
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Jesus Christ, did you even read my post?

You don't play extreme metal, I suggest you don't give advice on the subject. For this genre, an OD infront of the amp will ALWAYS tighten it up, in a good way.

I said he must not have had the Mesa setup right. You can't set a 5150 up wrong, it's too much fo a one trick pony.

I never said it was because I prefer Mesa's. It's because the two amps can be dialed up so similar to eachother it's not even funny.
 
Re: New amp for metal

DeadSkinSlayer3 said:
Don't rule out using an OD pedal. I've never heard an amp NOT sound better with one in front.

Seriously, this logic pisses me off. Most people will say "I don't want to use active pickups and overdrive pedals, I don't like the way they sound." List some records that you really enjoy the guitar sound of. Surely you DO like the way they sound infront of an amp, I bet you anything the record's you'd list would include it at least once.

/rant
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I could give you a list of bands that I know don't use it, just for fun, then would you be willing to bet your Single Recto? :D

You make a valid point. I do know several of the bands I listen to use pedals in front of their amps, and it sounds amazing. And I agree that it would never hurt to be open to the idea of trying an OD in front for experiment's sake.

Guy Who Invented Fire, I'm afraid I'm siding with Jeff on this one, 100%. Especially since he used to hate the Recto sound, saying they were "anemic, buzzy, and thin". Then he took some time with a cranked Recto, messed around with the dials, and found it was the ultimate amp. It just goes to show that if you spend enough time dialing amps in you can get to the goods. The same goes for pedals. Never judge an amp by what you hear in a short test.
 
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Re: New amp for metal

Thanks for the comments, i really appreciate it, the reason i didnt list the bogner is because its really hard for me to get hold of one and no way for me to play one without buying it.

As for the OD pedal thing, i "DO" like the sound, but i dont need the extra gain as its barely noticeable live and also i dont need the ground loop noise that im likely to get when the venue plugs everything into the same power outlet, things like this i have no control over, when im playing live at huge volumes i dont need the extra preamp gain, i only use 5 gain on my 5150 and thats more than enough when the volumes cranked, keeping things simple is what i want to do, i want an amp that can do everything on its own.

Looking around so far, The Cornford always leave me feeling amazed because they have such amazing lead tone, though i havent actually tried one cranked up for rhythm.

So far the Diezel and Engl are really impressing me.

As for the "not setup right", well i had quite a fiddle and ive heard a lot of records with a dual rectifier, its got a lot of good tones (and quite a lot of bad) and i do like the amp, but i like my current amp more, which is why im not considering a mesa boogie dual rect as a future purchase, its just not for me.

Ive also consulted an amp builder about getting my 5150 modified, hes going to get back to me with it when he gets the chance to check all the schematics, he did inform me that doing so would lose the resale value of the amp.

Thanks


Ryan
 
Re: New amp for metal

If you don't like the tone of Mesa's, no harm no foul. I'm not going to try to preach here, except on OD's/EMG's for metal.

It's not an issue of gain... it's an issue of tightness and clarity. With my 5150, I bumped the gain back to 4, slapped the TS on, and it wasn't muddy, fuzzy, and dull anymore.
 
Re: New amp for metal

DeadSkinSlayer3 said:
It's because the two amps can be dialed up so similar to eachother it's not even funny.
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You do know that a Dual Rect and a 5150 have a really simular distortion circuit?, they are both based on the Soldano SLO100.

Which is why you can get pretty much the same sound from either with fiddling (Apparently, though i didnt think so), regardless i find them to sound different.


Oh and im not a fan of the EMG active sound, its a tone sucking generic sound that i really dislike, i have owned the EMG 81 and 85.
My 5150 was as the tech said to me "setup properly" its not fizzy its not muddy and certainly not dull, i think it sounds AMAZING, i would be completely happy to buy another amp that sounded just like it so long as it gave me the extra flexability. I love the 5150.

I have money to burn and im looking at an "Upgrade" something that will ultimately make my sound always right at every venue, i want to remove the boundries.

Gotta admit im really liking the specs of the Engl SE with 6L6's.
 
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Re: New amp for metal

Ever tried a VHT or Framus? Framus might be pretty damn cheap over in the UK, made in Germany.

VHT Pitbull 100CL or Framus Cobra = hell yeah.
 
Re: New amp for metal

BigBazz said:
Ive also consulted an amp builder about getting my 5150 modified, hes going to get back to me with it when he gets the chance to check all the schematics, he did inform me that doing so would lose the resale value of the amp.
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Well, I suppose any mod would bring down the resale value in most cases, but there are two things to keep in mind here. First, the 5150 doesn't usually go for much when it's resold anyway. Second, most people will pay a little more if you mod an amp to make it better, especially in this case, unless they're collectors looking for mint, original amps. At least that's how I see it.

I have money to burn and im looking at an "Upgrade" something that will ultimately make my sound always right at every venue, i want to remove the boundries.
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Don't assume I'm trying to burst your bubble here, but I'm not sure that's even possible. Different venues are... well, different. The sound might not be the way you want it at some, it's just a fact of the physics of sound.
 
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Re: New amp for metal

Metalman_666 said:
Well, I suppose any mod would bring down the resale value in most cases, but there are two things to keep in mind here. First, the 5150 doesn't usually go for much when it's resold anyway. Second, most people will pay a little more if you mod an amp to make it better, especially in this case, unless they're collectors looking for mint, original amps. At least that's how I see it.



Don't assume I'm trying to burst your bubble here, but I'm not sure that's even possible. Different venues are... well, different. The sound might not be the way you want it at some, it's just a fact of the physics of sound.
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Yea most the time a "quality" mod to the amp will bring its resale way up unless you modded some American classic that all the collectors would bitch about.

Hell, if I had the money I'd have my classic 50 hotrodded.
 
Re: New amp for metal

Metalman_666 said:
Well, I suppose any mod would bring down the resale value in most cases, but there are two things to keep in mind here. First, the 5150 doesn't usually go for much when it's resold anyway. Second, most people will pay a little more if you mod an amp to make it better, especially in this case, unless they're collectors looking for mint, original amps. At least that's how I see it.



Don't assume I'm trying to burst your bubble here, but I'm not sure that's even possible. Different venues are... well, different. The sound might not be the way you want it at some, it's just a fact of the physics of sound.
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I could get about £500+ for my 5150 as it is here in the UK in its current state.

What i meant about getting the sound right is that the 5150 isnt very flexable on the EQ side of things, its not always easy to tune the eq to the particular venue, ofcourse i could use an Eq pedal, but i dont want to have to do that, i want to have the amp do all the work.

Last thursday we played a gig, the amp sounded great on stage, but i had someone play and i went out front and there was enough mids going out to knock out a donkey, it was cutting through too much, and the place's PA and soundguys were crap, it was a club, not a big place (150 people max at a guess) but a very popular venue, they didnt mic anything other than the snare drum, and the vocals ofcourse, we also didnt have monitors (this may seem crazy but its not the first time its happened, though ive played that particular venue before and it was much more profesionally done.)

The guitar was cutting through too much and it was basecly a wall of mid frequencies, the balance didnt seem right, now i couldent do a lot about it because nothing was mic'd up and the 5150 EQ isnt flexable enough, some venues it can sound perfect, others it doesnt.

So this is another good reason to replace the 5150.

:)


Ryan
 
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Re: New amp for metal

Well.. you should test an all tube POWER AMP, with a 2x12 with celestion vintage 30/g12 t 75 or celestion vintage 30/classic lead 80.. and a uber metal pedal. ahahah i guess it will crush everyone´s tone
 
Re: New amp for metal

WITH FULL DISTORTION said:
Well.. you should test an all tube POWER AMP, with a 2x12 with celestion vintage 30/g12 t 75 or celestion vintage 30/classic lead 80.. and a uber metal pedal. ahahah i guess it will crush everyone´s tone
Click to expand...


have you tried the uber metal ? i tried it at my local music store and it sucks ! way too digital sound!
 
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