"New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

[lousy_player]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

I'm sure some of the "New" jobbers will show up on eBay. I'll have to nab one and see if it does the original justice.

 

[Tele-Bob]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

Unless they're using CuNiFe magnets, they're never going to be much like the originals. They might look the same, but that's about as far as it can go.

Also, when the originals were installed into guitars, they were used with 1 Meg (ohm) pots. I think the re-issues use 250K pots.

I do know about this stuff from experience, as i have owned a 74 Telecaster Custom for over 25 years (wide-range fenderbucker at the neck, regular single-coil at the bridge). No other humbucker has ever attained the sound of the original widebuckers, and never will unless there is a return to CuNiFe, which i doubt will happen, sadly.

I beg to differ. CuNiFe is not a magic bullet. It's a magnet. If you can approximate the magnetic field with a different material, the pickup WILL sound the same. It's not magic. There is retro-fit for the WRHB that truly captures the essence of the original vintage pickup using alnico v magnets. Everyone who has tried them and compared them to the originals has said unanimously that in a blind test, they can't tell the diiference between their originals and the retro-fit.

Magnetic fields/patterns are a weird thing. If you can make a field the same strength and pattern, that's all that is required. It really doesn't matter what material you use to accomplish it. Duplicating the field is a whole other endeavor and often not easily accomplished.

 

[Fusion1]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

Were those pole pieces in those old Maxon pickups in the Electra Les paul copies CuNiFe magnets? I remember the Omega I got I took out the bridge pickup as it had on one coil larger than normal slotted screws and the other coil had 2 plates (about the size of the Parallel Axis poles but doubled together and running perpendicular to the strings and not parallel IIRC) per pole piece for a total of 12 plates per pickup. It was a white/black zebra and the bobbin tops were basically glued to the bobbin itself I know as I took them off to spray paint the magnets flat black and then put the bobbin tops back on. I think I sold it on Ebay for $24 or so and at the time I thought, "Cool I got enough $$$ on a crap pickup to mostly pay for a used Duncan." With my luck that crappy sounding pickup is maybe worth hundreds now...

 

[dr. ad]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

I beg to differ. CuNiFe is not a magic bullet. It's a magnet. If you can approximate the magnetic field with a different material, the pickup WILL sound the same. It's not magic. The Telenator retro-fit for the WRHB truly captures the essence of the original vintage pickup using alnico v magnets. Everyone who has tried them and compared them to the originals has said unanimously that in a blind test, they can't tell the diiference between their originals and the Telenator retro-fit.

Magnetic fields/patterns are a weird thing. If you can make a field the same strength and pattern, that's all that is required. It really doesn't matter what material you use to accomplish it. Duplicating the field is a whole other endeavor and often not easily accomplished.

as great as that sounds, we really need to hear that from someone who
1 isn't trying to sell them
2 isn't affiliated with anyone who's trying to sell them
3 actually has a working original to compare it to, in the same guitar, through the same amp

 

[Tele-Bob]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

Oh, you mean, just like the person who posted that CuNiFe is the only way to go? LOL

I'm just trying to dispell a myth, not sell product. If I were trying to sell product I would direct you to my website where several people have compared WRHBs using alnico in place of CuNiFe and have enjoyed the results. But I don't want to spam. Just trying to dispell a myth that took several months of research and development to bust.

When someone has information they're willing to share in the best interest of those around them, it's natural to want to share. Sorry if my comments had the appearance of being inappropriate.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

Oh, you mean, just like the person who posted that CuNiFe is the only way to go? LOL

I'm just trying to dispell a myth, not sell product. If I were trying to sell product I would direct you to my website where several people have compared WRHBs using alnico in place of CuNiFe and have enjoyed the results. But I don't want to spam. Just trying to dispell a myth that took several months of research and development to bust.

When someone has information they're willing to share in the best interest of those around them, it's natural to want to share. Sorry if my comments had the appearance of being inappropriate.

So you are Mr. Telenator, manufacturer of the pickups that you speak of ?

 

[Xergey Zenandzen]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

The Telenator retro-fit for the WRHB truly captures the essence of the original vintage pickup using alnico v magnets. Everyone who has tried them and compared them to the originals has said unanimously that in a blind test, they can't tell the diiference between their originals and the Telenator retro-fit.

This smacks of advertising.
Pure & simple.

 

[Tele-Bob]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

Going from just a guy who fools around with pickup ideas to someone who now has a business making them is a little weird. A few months ago, I could talk about any of this stuff openly and we all got along. Now that it's a business, it seems the rules have changed. These forums are a great place for the exchange of information. That's what we're doing. I'm not telling anyone to buy anything. I'm simply openly sharing what I've discovered to be true. The fact is, you can get the sound of the original WRHB using alnico magnets and on a different guitar forum, I have divulged the information in great detail as to how you can do it yourself.

There's no advertising here.
Pure & simple.

 

[Xergey Zenandzen]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

By naming your product on a competitor's website you are promoting your own stuff ,that is advertising.

 

[dr. ad]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

I'm just trying to dispell a myth, not sell product. If I were trying to sell product I would direct you to my website where several people have compared WRHBs using alnico in place of CuNiFe and have enjoyed the results. But I don't want to spam. Just trying to dispell a myth that took several months of research and development to bust.

When someone has information they're willing to share in the best interest of those around them, it's natural to want to share. Sorry if my comments had the appearance of being inappropriate.

i don't think there's anything inappropriate about what you've said at all; i'm more suggesting that i can't make an informed judgement - i checked a clip out and thought it sounded good, but i haven't heard an original.
also, you've obviously invested a lot of time and effort (and probably expense) in these, so may be a little partial to them

pls excuse the tone, was only to provoke you into putting your case forward.
even if the sound of the machined alnico poles isn't a 100% spot-on recreation of the original, it'd still be much closer than the fender re-issues

mr philtrum here would probably be a good candidate to test them out and give you and the rest of the forum some feedback though...

 

[Tele-Bob]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

OK, I editted my post to remove the brand name. Since Seymour Duncan offers nothing similar for the WRHB, there really isn't a conflict of interest. About the actual sound, all I can say is, there are some of these retro-fits on world tour right now being played nearly every night. As you know, the reviews cannot be posted in open forums so it will creep into the public domain soon enough. Until then, anyone taking a hard stand on CuNiFe being the magic bullet might want to reconsider their position. Egg can be a little tough to wash from one's face. :1::approve:.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

OK, I editted my post to remove the brand name. Since Seymour Duncan offers nothing similar for the WRHB, there really isn't a conflict of interest. About the actual sound, all I can say is, there are some of these retro-fits on world tour right now being played nearly every night. As you know, the reviews cannot be posted in open forums so it will creep into the public domain soon enough. Until then, anyone taking a hard stand on CuNiFe being the magic bullet might want to reconsider their position. Egg can be a little tough to wash from one's face. :1::approve:.

Some Facts :

AT the time of my post, I wrote exactly what i felt and had experienced to that point. I am always fully open to discover that something new or improved has appeared because somebody somewhere made a break-through. I would be particularly interested to find that a replacement Widebucker was avaiable that was indistinguishable from the real thing.

I am currently at a loss to understand how i am likely to have egg on my face when my experience before you mentioned Telenator pickups* was as i described, and since you have posted in this thread, much has been said about my 'hard line' statement (re. CuNiFe), but no alternative is available for me to make any comparrison. So far, all i am getting is your written words both here and at the other forum.

* Your post that you edited is in a quote not far back in it's original form.


From information you imparted in your first post in this thread, it may have been entirely possible for me to go away and think about that, but before i responded, you had already started making ..... let's just say, you've latched onto half a sentence of mine like a dog with a bone. You may be enjoying the sport, but it is hollow, as all we are being offered is words written on a forum as your alternative to the FWRH. Your product and clips may be on their way to availability on a wide scale, but for the moment, most of us here haven't and can't hear them or try them.

I would suggest getting a couple of members of forums to trial your pickups, members who have experience with the originals, preferably ones who currently own guitars with one or two of the original pickups. I know there are people here with original Tele Customs, Thinlines, Deluxes etc. Reviews from forum members would create a lot of interest here.T

People will listen, perhaps re-think, and possibly choose.....but they can only do that when there is more than one item, so that a choice is possible.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

I beg to differ. CuNiFe is not a magic bullet. It's a magnet. If you can approximate the magnetic field with a different material, the pickup WILL sound the same...Magnetic fields/patterns are a weird thing. If you can make a field the same strength and pattern, that's all that is required. It really doesn't matter what material you use to accomplish it. Duplicating the field is a whole other endeavor and often not easily accomplished.

With all due respect this is false. If it were true, a humbucker with Alnico 5 degaussed to match the gauss strength of Alnico II would sound exactly like an Alnico II. It does not. Without getting too into it, the composition of all metals that are in close proximity to the coil have an effect on the sound of the pickup. The baseplate on a Tele pickup is the most obvious evidence, but a nickel humbucker cover is another good example. It may not be magnetic, but it still affects the sound. The material the magnet is made of affects the field, but also the coil, and the way the magnetic field accepts disturbance when the string is plucked.

You're free to come here and discuss whatever you want, I mean no disrespect. You may very well be duplicating vintage tones, I don't mean to suggest any conflict with your business, your practices, etc. You comment just seemed to ignore the alloy's effect on the coil's tone.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

Bob, I do a little winding myself and the fact is it IS different when you become a "competitor" with Duncan (however microscopic) and are talking on his site. You have to edit what you say out of respect to the owner of the house and to avoid getting kicked out.

To Duncan's GREAT credit -- or perhaps foolhardiness -- they've never even warned me about anything I've said. But I've also been very careful not to mention my products or brand name in here, and have done my best to edit my posts on this or that aspect of the technology so it can't be interpreted as even a tangential/indirect plug. I may have failed sometimes, but I'm really trying to walk the line.

In other words, let's both be really careful so one of us doesn't get the boot in a general purge resulting from something the other guy said.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

My instincts are to be more interested in false information than the potential conflict of interest. This forum could be a place where Rob Turner and Larry Dimarzio hang out. I think we're that open and accepting here as a group, and its directly related to the success of the forum. This is easily THE place to be for substantive discussions on tone, without "cork sniffery" or junk science.

Zhang: If the day ever comes that I feel you're putting out false information, that's when we'll have a chat. Until then, keep doing what you're doing. Tele-Bob, just qualify statements with things like "I think" or "I feel" and you should be fine. I understand the intent of your statement, but the way you put it, and as if it were fact, is actually what makes it false. Your sentiments, that you feel some sounds can be duplicated by various other techniques besides exactly copying the original, are fine. You can have those opinions. Dimarzio doesn't buy any Alnico II humbucker magnets because they feel Airbuckering A5 gives them what they need. They're welcome to that opinion too. No harm.

 

[veryhungrycaterpilla]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

My instincts are to be more interested in false information than the potential conflict of interest. This forum could be a place where Rob Turner and Larry Dimarzio hang out. I think we're that open and accepting here as a group, and its directly related to the success of the forum. This is easily THE place to be for substantive discussions on tone, without "cork sniffery" or junk science.

Frank,

I think it speaks volumes to SD, the man and the company, that this forum is so open and knowledgeable. This is THE guitar-oriented forum. I think the moderators here needs to be commended. :thanks:

 

[Tele-Bob]

Re: "New" Fender Wide Range Humbuckers

You guys are great. This is exactly what I'd like to be discussing here. There comes a point where a person may make a claim and then be challanged by others, and that's fine. That's all good discussion. I suppose I get caught up in the need to substantiate a claim and the conversation sometimes wanders percariously close to the inappropriate. Please take my comments in the light-hearted, interest of science and banter in which they're intended. Sorry if I've ruffled anyone.

Frank, I completely understand what you're saying concerning bar magnets and proximity to the coils. I have found that magnet mass also plays a vital role in the equation and several months of testing specific sizes and proximity ranges have yielded some very interesting results. When a person has something in front of them that works, and all in attendence agree that it works exactly as described, it's difficult to express that without sounding a little bit strong minded. On the other hand, I have softened my description in other places only to find people saying, "what?! how much?! for a pickup that sounds "very close" to the original?!" You know how the public can be.

I remember your video clip of the P-rails pickups where the people slagging you were more interested in your playing than actual sound of the pickups. It's a harsh world out there and very difficult to know how to approach these things sometimes.

That said, I'm a big fan of Seymour Duncan products and currently have a set P-Rails, P90 Antiquity Soap Bars, Custom V, '59, P90 Stacks and have played your products for many many years.

Thanks for the level headed discussion. I'll do my best to discuss the technical aspects of these things in the future without crossing the line. It's just so difficult sometimes because people want you to substantiate what you're saying. It's all good.