Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: New Gibson "Dusk Tiger"
Seriously, 3 threads in as many weeks???
This is just bashing for bashing´s sake IMO... Anybody actually interested in these instruments should read the other 2 and just skip over this one.
If you don´t like it then don´t ****ing buy it and just get on with your god**** life instead of making it into a crusade to rag on everything Gibson makes that isn´t a VOS Les Paul...
ESPECIALLY if you´ve never played one, which I think it´s safe to assume that nobody here has done...
It´s NOT a historic LP reissue, nor was it ever intended to be. Any comments about how it´s a "marketing driven" les paul completely misunderstand the reasoning behind building this instrument.
BTW these are limited to 1000 pcs. anyway, so don´t worry about seeing one anytime soon in most places... you´re probably all pretty safe from the unfathomable horror that all new Gibsons apparently are...
Roland´s VG systems have the exact same issue.
That said, the technology driving the Variax is old news, it´s pitch shifting technology from the late 80s, guitar modeling from the mid 90s, driven by a piezo pickup with hex outputs that was essentially designed in the 70s. The only thing that makes a variax unique is the way it was all combined onboard instead of in an outboard processing box.
Interestingly enough, when Line6 or any other company takes multiple technologies that are age old and combines them onboard, everybody says cool idea.
When Gibson does it, especially when they mount it in anything other than a VOS `59 burst, the entire guitar community has nothing better to do then slam them into the wall and going into a bashing-frenzy much like that seen when sharks are going after a large animal.
I´d place bets that if Fender were to make the exact same thing, just in a strat shape, everybody would welcome it with notably more open open arms.
Guitarists are notoriously "neanderthal-centric", meaning that any ide that has not been around for at least 50 years and has been effectively shown to be great in those 50 years is instantly "crap". Nevermind whether the entire develeopment process went the way it did because people actually LISTENED to guitarists (big mistake there).
I remember when Graphtech saddles were first introduced. Thery were EXACTLY what guitarists had been pining for for a good ten years. When they were introduced, they met very small success, only the real "Out of the box" people tried them, for everybody else they weren´t "vintage-looking enough" and were therefore immediately denounced as crap.
And that´s what luthiers and manufacturers absolutely hate about their situation. Every guitarist supposedly "wants" improvements on vintage equipment. But every improvement that´s made that doesn´t look exactly like the POS vintage part it´s improving on is met with incessant carpet bombing and megatons of napalm...
If you look at bass-centric forums, new instrument designs are discussed rationally and critically, regardless of how whacked-out they may be. Almiost never does a manuifacturer meet a firing squad before the relaese of an instrument based solely on looks. This is the exact opposite of what´s going on here, and it´s primarily because for some inexplicable reason Bassists unlike guitarists understand that to pass judgement on an instrument and have your opinion be worth 2 cents or more, you have to actually play the instrument first.
This MAJOR difference in mindset is also why you´re a million times more likely to see a bassist playing something with a more unconventional shape than you will a guitarist. Guitarists "need" strats, teles, lesters, SGs and 335s to feel "safe", bassists just need 4 strings and a piece of wood.
Just out of curiosity: how many people have tried the CURRENT Robot tuning systems other than myself, or are we all talking about the versions from last year, 2007 or even 2006?? Becauue this is what a lot of the comments lead me to believe..
Either way, I´m out of this, enjoy your hand-tenderized horse steaks
Seriously, 3 threads in as many weeks???
This is just bashing for bashing´s sake IMO... Anybody actually interested in these instruments should read the other 2 and just skip over this one.
If you don´t like it then don´t ****ing buy it and just get on with your god**** life instead of making it into a crusade to rag on everything Gibson makes that isn´t a VOS Les Paul...
ESPECIALLY if you´ve never played one, which I think it´s safe to assume that nobody here has done...
It´s NOT a historic LP reissue, nor was it ever intended to be. Any comments about how it´s a "marketing driven" les paul completely misunderstand the reasoning behind building this instrument.
BTW these are limited to 1000 pcs. anyway, so don´t worry about seeing one anytime soon in most places... you´re probably all pretty safe from the unfathomable horror that all new Gibsons apparently are...
The main difference being that if you´re used to actually using your ears as a control for the notes you´re playing you´re ****ed with a Variax because the notes you´re playing on the fretboard are no longer the notes coming out of the amp.
Roland´s VG systems have the exact same issue.
That said, the technology driving the Variax is old news, it´s pitch shifting technology from the late 80s, guitar modeling from the mid 90s, driven by a piezo pickup with hex outputs that was essentially designed in the 70s. The only thing that makes a variax unique is the way it was all combined onboard instead of in an outboard processing box.
Interestingly enough, when Line6 or any other company takes multiple technologies that are age old and combines them onboard, everybody says cool idea.
When Gibson does it, especially when they mount it in anything other than a VOS `59 burst, the entire guitar community has nothing better to do then slam them into the wall and going into a bashing-frenzy much like that seen when sharks are going after a large animal.
I´d place bets that if Fender were to make the exact same thing, just in a strat shape, everybody would welcome it with notably more open open arms.
Guitarists are notoriously "neanderthal-centric", meaning that any ide that has not been around for at least 50 years and has been effectively shown to be great in those 50 years is instantly "crap". Nevermind whether the entire develeopment process went the way it did because people actually LISTENED to guitarists (big mistake there).
I remember when Graphtech saddles were first introduced. Thery were EXACTLY what guitarists had been pining for for a good ten years. When they were introduced, they met very small success, only the real "Out of the box" people tried them, for everybody else they weren´t "vintage-looking enough" and were therefore immediately denounced as crap.
And that´s what luthiers and manufacturers absolutely hate about their situation. Every guitarist supposedly "wants" improvements on vintage equipment. But every improvement that´s made that doesn´t look exactly like the POS vintage part it´s improving on is met with incessant carpet bombing and megatons of napalm...
If you look at bass-centric forums, new instrument designs are discussed rationally and critically, regardless of how whacked-out they may be. Almiost never does a manuifacturer meet a firing squad before the relaese of an instrument based solely on looks. This is the exact opposite of what´s going on here, and it´s primarily because for some inexplicable reason Bassists unlike guitarists understand that to pass judgement on an instrument and have your opinion be worth 2 cents or more, you have to actually play the instrument first.
This MAJOR difference in mindset is also why you´re a million times more likely to see a bassist playing something with a more unconventional shape than you will a guitarist. Guitarists "need" strats, teles, lesters, SGs and 335s to feel "safe", bassists just need 4 strings and a piece of wood.
Just out of curiosity: how many people have tried the CURRENT Robot tuning systems other than myself, or are we all talking about the versions from last year, 2007 or even 2006?? Becauue this is what a lot of the comments lead me to believe..
Either way, I´m out of this, enjoy your hand-tenderized horse steaks
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. It's quite true though. A similar phenomenon exists in the classical guitar world - Smallman created a big stink because his guitars weren't the umpteenth exemplum of a fan braced, Torres/Ramirez/Hauser clone. There are lots of people who hate lattice braced guitars because they don't have a 'traditional' tone. Since Smallman, people have become more adventurous: more makers experimenting with lattice, and chaps like Dammann and Wagner with their double tops. But such luthierie is different since things are made to order, not mass-produced to a standard, so there is room for experimentation. 
