New Guitar or New Pickups?

[chlx]

Ok, I am playing a cheap Epiphone Special II... I was planning on replacing it totally, but I'm not sure anymore. Tone wise, it is very very very lacking... but at the same time it plays smooth enough for me, has a good neck scale, and basically hasn't given me any problems that I can't take care of... except tone.

So, now I'm considering putting an sh-5 in the bridge, and an APH-1 in the neck. I THINK this would help the tone pretty dramatically, to get the crummy Epiphones pups out.

So, I'm asking your advice. Will it even be worth my while to try and salvage this beast with new pups, or should I just dump it and save for a new axe altogether?

 

[DeadSkinSlayer3]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

Get the bridge pickup, see if it improves as much as you're thinking. Then go from there.

 

[aleclee]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

I'd say it depends on what you think you might replace it with.

Most import guitars are lacking in the electronics department. Not just pickups but pots, caps and jacks as well. These can affect tone as well as reliability.

Putting great pickups in a hunk of plywood (I dunno what your Epi is made from but a lot of inexpensive guitars are made from laminates) may or may not be a good investment. It'll probably be an improvement but it may not get you the tone you seek, in which case you've put a bunch of $$$ into the guitar that's not easy to get out (upgrades on inexpensive guitars don't often do much for resale).

On the other hand, if it'll take you a long time to save up for your "next step" guitar, upgrading the pickups will make the wait less burdensome and you'll have a decent backup when you get your next guitar.

IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

 

[Maggot]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

I'd say get a new guitar unless you LOVE your guitar. If you love playing a particular very cheap guitar, it's worth putting a decent pickup on. However if your current guitar really has nothing to offer tone-wise a pickup might not help that much - it can only amplify what's already there. I'd say get a new pickup if there's something in the sound that you like that you'd like to accentuate (and get rid of some of the bad stuff). If you just don 't like the sound, get a new guitar.

 

[spannyspan]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

The way I see it, buy them for your current guitar and see what they sound like. I'm sure it'll sound much better than before. And if you buy a new guitar, put the new pick ups into the new one.

 

[Sweet Leaf_Sabbath]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

Dude. I'm in the same position you are...

I've got the Epi Special SG. I HATE IT. I put a Ducan Detonator Performer in it and it made no difference. I'm definatly gettin a new axe: Jackson DK2 Dinky

I mean, it's depends on what YOU want to do, but I'd say get a new axe

 

[Jessica]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

I have a couple different guitars, but I use my cheap Epi LP to practice installing pickups. I had an SH-5 in there for a while, I loved it. If you like the way the guitar plays, then it's probably worth the investment. So what if it's not the most impressive/super expensive guitar, if you like it, thats what counts. And if you end up not hearing a difference, you can always use that pickup in another guitar.

 

[Artie]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

I'm definitely of the "cheap-guitar" state of mind. I have four electrics now, and am about to acquire a fifth, that all together, add up to less than one good MIA Strat. The thing is though, its fun to be able to choose from a variety of guitars and pickup combinations, and its in line with my current level of talent. (Although, as I get better, I'll probably just have even more guitars.)

Only one of my guitars was more expensive than your Epiphone, and even then, not by much. All of them have benefited greatly by being "Duncanized".
(That is, the ones that have been done, so far.)

Like someone else said, if you like the guitar, go ahead and upgrade it. You can always move the pups to a newer guitar later.

 

[nuntius]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

im with artie.

i havent spent more than 350 pounds on a guitar in my life, and the most i'd ever stretch to is 500.

all you need is something that plays nice, and is resonant enough to have decent sustain. hate to knock on duncan, but a set of duncans wont do as much for your tone as good chops - most of your tone is gonna come from that department.

if that epi doesnt feel resonant (one way to test this is to strum a g chord, and feel where the body resonates and for how long with your picking hand) then trade up to a guitar that is.

you dont need to go overboard by any means to get a nice tone.. past a certain price range your paying for a name/nice finish anyway imo.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

Whenever I evalute a guitar for work I always look at a few things. Most important to me is the neck and frets because a fret job is the generally the most expensive thing you can have done to a guitar. With an inexpensive guitar I am far less likely to get it fretted. If your neck is in good condition thats a big plus.

Next I look at the bridge, nut and tuners. Combined, a new set of hardware can cost as much as a fret job. A fretjob and new hardware can cost as much as a new "decent" guitar. If a guitar needs too much work it's often best to pass on it and save up for a new guitar unless it holds major sentimental value or unless you have deep pockets and just don't care. I have a 98 MIA Strat that I paid $500 for new that I have dropped another $800 into for hardware and pickup upgrades. It's a killer playing guitar but it should be for a $1300 Strat. For that kind of money though I could have bought quite a few different guitars and I'll never get my money back out of that Strat. The point is that you have to draw the line somewhere.

If your Epi is more or less solid and only needs new pickups and maybe the electronics changed out plus a good set-up I'd say go for it. I have a dozen or so guitars here at the house ranging from maybe $500 to $5000 and they were all improved dramatically in the tone department by changing out the pickups and electronics.

A solid set-up always helps as well.

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

Check inside one of the pickup cavities, sand off the black paint and check out the body material. If it's a wood compositie / particle wood, then don't bother upgrading the guitar. If it's alder or mahogany, then it might be worth it to you.

If it is alder or mahogany, then you still have to check the fretboard and neck for warping and twisting, defretting, anything where the guitar is falling apart. Tuners, nuts, pots, etc can be replaced - even on the epiphone les pauls and custom les pauls, these things still warrant being upgraded, so don't let that scare you away.

 

[mjsever]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

I'd say get a new guitar unless you LOVE your guitar. If you love playing a particular very cheap guitar, it's worth putting a decent pickup on. However if your current guitar really has nothing to offer tone-wise a pickup might not help that much - it can only amplify what's already there. I'd say get a new pickup if there's something in the sound that you like that you'd like to accentuate (and get rid of some of the bad stuff). If you just don 't like the sound, get a new guitar.

Amen to this. Another problem you might face is that if you replace the pickups and still don't like the sound, you'll be continually replacing, testing, etc. until you have the guitar you're looking for. Since each guitar has its own voice, the tone samples will only give you an idea for what they will sound like in your own guitar. Some people love this process, but they probably love the guitar too. If you go to a guitar shop and find you like other guitars that play and sound better, might be better to just lump it and get a better axe.

 

[Artie]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

Whenever I evalute a guitar for work I always look at a few things. Most important to me is the neck and frets . . .

I want to reinforce this statement, simply because I failed to include it in my first comments.
(Not that Robert needs reinforcement by me.) :wink:

The "cheap" guitars that I tend to mod, are late 70's/early 80's MIA Peavey's, like the Predator/Patriot/T-60/T-15/T-26, etc, which can generally be had in the $80 to $150 range. These all have, IMHO, great necks, and are a good basic foundation to build upon.

 

[Indie P Bass]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

Dude. I'm in the same position you are...

I've got the Epi Special SG. I HATE IT. I put a Ducan Detonator Performer in it and it made no difference. I'm definatly gettin a new axe: Jackson DK2 Dinky

I mean, it's depends on what YOU want to do, but I'd say get a new axe

You sure you hate it? Which model did you put in? I put a Performer in my Epiphone P-bass and it's comparable to my Fender's and my bass teacher LOVES it. Strange... maybe it's just cuase the bass pickups better made or something.

 

[Indie P Bass]

Re: New Guitar or New Pickups?

Ya know... they're completely right. I have a 300 dollars Epiphone guitar that I've put tones of work into and now it's awsome. I bought a Japanese Ibanez from the 70's for 100 dollars, put a dimarzio in it and now it's my best sounding guitar. I'm currently working on a Burns 60's 12-string I bought for 50 dollars. You don't need to drop a cool grand on a guitar for a good guitar. The most I've dropped on an instrument was 520 on my Fender Deluxe P-bass. And on a Mustang bass, too, but, that's not for me.

Anyway... I can't say that those Epiphone pickups are terrible, they're just not great. I've still got my old Epiphone HB sitting around and I've kicked it around in my gutiars, it sounds pretty good for what it is. He're my suggestion for your special two... ok? Go to guitar center and pick up a humbucker, whatever one you want. Then go to a ma & pop store and pick up 2 CTS pots, a 3 way toggle and an output jack. And don't pay less than 3 dollars for any part. Then go to radioshack and buy the orange disc .0047pfu Caps. If you don't have a soldering iron yet, pick one up and pick up some solder, too. This is the perfect guitar to learn this type of stuff on.