New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

[dr.barlo]

Fellas,

Lately I have been working like a dog, and in my spare time did some nice gigs and recorded new stuff with my band. I always carry my LP around, and when I need a strat kinda tone, I just roll of the vol to 7.5-8.0K on both pickups in the middle or neck position. The timbuckers in mine do a great job creating somewhat quacky kinda tone.

Yet, still NO CIGAR!

I mean on cranked tones what I talked above does really good "Key To Highway" kinda tones. But clean they are so far away from delivering the clean tele/strat single coil tones.

Recently, I read about Lew and Curly's Duncan CS tele lead pickup. It is a tele pickup which with the help of a switch can work either ~6.80K or ~9.70K. I don't suppose the extra windings are reverse wound, otherwise 9.70K would not be a genuine tele lead. BTW guys correct me if I am wrong!

So for the last week or so I thought of the following idea:

Why not have a bridge HB wound with the slug coil wound with #42 gauge wire (I think that's what's used in JD tele lead no? Also with the same type of insulation as that on JD tele lead) to some DC levels like 7.50K or so. It even may be that the G and D is slightly raised (as that on JD). Moreover, the screw bobin would be a good old usual PAF clone screw bobin.

The "standard" setting would be both of the coils ~4.20K (of course of unbalanced coils we could get 4.00+4.50K or something to go in series you know, as is the case in PG's).

Now the "new part":

So as some of you already have figured out, I think of using a miniswitch so that when only the slug coil is active, I intend to use a miniswitch to add the extra windings (of ~3.50K) to the slug coil just like Seymour/Lew/Curly (man did you install yours, or is it still in its box ? ) do with their CS esquire tele lead.

The point of this exercise is to have JD and PAF HB in the same pickup!

Furthermore, the same goes for the neck position so that the idea there is to get a genuine surfer neck (6.30K) strat neck and PAF HB. I was thinking of doing all the above on the screw bobin in the neck, that's the one closer to the neck afterall. And especially because that LP have shorter necks, I guess the same experiment would not be producing that great results when this idea were to be used in the slug bobin in the neck position. But then again because of that new complications might arise, since this time the slug bobin of the bridge and the screw bobin of the neck gotta be RWRP for the strat tone.

To sum up the whole point of this story is to have geniuine JD and a bridge PAF HB in the bridge and strat a5 single coil and neck PAF HB in the neck.

I know that there will be differences because (1) the magnetic field is different (both in size and shape because on single coils the slugs are magnets, and on hb's the magnet is under the bobins, but the slug pieces sort of carry that field to the strings) (2) the shape of the position of the pickup will be different (3) ....

I know that this is a questions for the experts. But before going ahead and inquiring more I just wanted to see what you guys would think of that. Afterall, I know some of you guys here are experts.

What do you think? Any feedback?

Thanks,

B

PS: (1) I stopped using split HB's for more than 4 years now. I don't think the results of splitting a PAF clone is that convincing.

(2) If that whole thing were to be feasible, I think I am going to need the help of Kent/Artie/John, because I am sure that the wiring on that one would be a nightmare! :smack: :lmao:

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

I have talked with people about this before...MJ can do it...I think! with the right switches, I think you could do it all at one time...when you cut out one of the coils on the bucker, the SAME switch at the SAME time could add the extra windings. That has always been my problem with coil taps on buckers...half of a humbucker is not as strong as a Single coil...the Custom shop could do it...but do you want to pay for it? :laugh2: Let me know what happens...if this can really be done I want to know because right after you get yours...Im getting inline for the Dr. Barlo Custom Shop Humbucker Set! :dance: :smoker: :32: :laugh2:

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

Thanks man!

I am sure that MJ can do it. In fact not to waste her time, I wanted to ask about it here first. Then I am gonna definitely ask her about it. If she says it can be done, I am ready to PAY! :burnout: Believe if this can be done (a genuine PAF set that can BE a JD/Broadcaster and strat neck set) it is definitely worth a lot of money.

I also think that I could sort of be "reinventing the wheel". It is highly probable that somebody thought of that before, and Duncan CS could have done such a pickup already. Thus, I think the chances of that design being called the "Barlo SD-CS HB" is very remote. :blackeye: :smack: :burnout:

B

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

Well Doc...maybe people have thought about it, but no one that I know has gone as far as to have it done! Therefore it will be the Dr Barlo Set! The guy who invented fire has spoken...therefore it is law

 

[brinton]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

I'm not an expert, but wouldn't the coils be extremely mismatched, thus loosing the PAF humbucker tone, but sill having the fender type coils relatively close. What I mean is one strat coil ~ 3/4 of PAF power, therefore the other coil must be very weak in order to stay in the same output range of a typical PAF HB. If a typical PAF coil is 4.5k then wouldn't the mismatch alter the tone, consider how a while ago they made 59/Custom (11k somethin like that) hybrids around here on the forum, I'm going to guess the custom slug coil was around 5,6 maybe 7k (I don't know what I'm talking about!) together the mismatched coils completely altered the tone, it wasn't the same as just any other balanced pickup, NM this is too confusing to me, myself and I.

Good Luck :fing2:

 

[brinton]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

oh yeah, steel pole-pieces w/ magnets on the bottom sound "rounder", My original JBP strat had the ceramic magnets on the bottom type pickups, they measured ~6.5k ohms, and they were musshier, rounder, wannabe strat boys, not nearly as much top end/bottom bounce/bubble as a typical strat pup. But then again those are JBP strat pups (guitar was 140$ lol, same price as the pickups I have in there)

That reminds me, the PAF Pro has excellent split tones, I really like my JBP w/ super switch wiring
1-neck full,
2-outside coils in parallel (good and funky, not as tele sounding as I expected, but good rhythm tone),
3-both HB's series,
4-inside coils in parallel (really straty, awesome)
5-bridge HB series

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

The idea is that one of the coils is tapped...so when it's bucker the coils are "normal" but when it is in singlecoil mode you kick in the tap and the coil goes from ~ 6000 turns to ~8350...which SHOULD give you a bucker sound that is very close to a PAF, and a singlecoil tone that SHOULD be very close to a Strat or Tele...

 

[brinton]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

gotcha! I thought he was just trying to add a complimentary coil to strat coil to make it a decent PAF sound! So let me get this straight, your starting with a standard HB, then adding some turns to one coil, BUT, they'll only be engaged when the pup is split.

What's the wiring on that gonna look like BTW?

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

what also would be cool, well, if i understand humbuckers right, one is an actual pickup, and the other is a voicing coil

well, if i'm right on that, then one with just 2 voicing coils would be cool, to use in combination with the other pickups/humbucker

of course you'd hafta do some coil splitting, but well, who cares?

 

[msplines]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

Just out of interest, I get great tele and strat sounds using an Sdemon bridge and a JB neck in a mahogany/maple bodied ebony neck LP type guitar (see my avatar) BUT........
and it's a big BUT (no puns please, the children are listening)
When I tried the same thing in my LP studio (slightly thicker and rosewood F/B), it was nothing like as good, bright or as quacky in the mid position.
With this in mind, it might be prudent to spend a couple of hours (IF you have the pickups available(and the time natch)) and install a couple of representative single coils in the LP and see if it sounds like what you want - some of the guys here might be able to lend you similar pickups to what you describe - its fairly easy to knock up an adapted carrier plate (i dunned it meself guv).
Hope this helps

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

Brinton, GWIF answered your question.

MSPLINES, first thanks for the message. Moreover, such a hot HB in the neck (as you are using) would not do it for me. I am strictly a PAF admirer, and wanna stick to 8.50K bridge 7.50-8.00K neck "rule". That's a priority, thus, would rather carry a strat or tele along with my LP.

The other question of yours is well granted. And YES, I tried a strat neck single coil pickup in the neck of a LP. Of course it does not look right, but still it fits into the pickup ring. I did not try a tele bridge in the bridge of a LP for obvious reasons. But a stelly (a muy grande tele bridge pickup to fit a strat bridge position). Both sounded good, did the single coil tones, even tho they were in a paul. Thus, no problems there as well.

B

 

[Artie]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

If I'm following this correctly, the wiring should be pretty simple. When you "split" a humbucker, using a push/pull pot, you only use half the switch anyway. You'ld use the other half to switch in the extra windings.

I wonder if you could simulate this with a matched pair of tapped Qp's. One RWRP, of course. I'm never sure about this - is a neck single, in series with a RWRP single, the same as a 'bucker? Kent?

 

[rinse_master]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

Sounds like a good idea, the best way to go IMO, although pricey and slightly complicated!

I wonder if you could simulate this with a matched pair of tapped Qp's. One RWRP, of course.

That's something I've thought about too, it'll be interesting to find out...

 

[msplines]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

YES, I tried a strat neck single coil pickup in the neck of a LP. Of course it does not look right, but still it fits into the pickup ring. I did not try a tele bridge in the bridge of a LP for obvious reasons. But a stelly (a muy grande tele bridge pickup to fit a strat bridge position). Both sounded good, did the single coil tones, even tho they were in a paul. Thus, no problems there as well.

B

Mmmmmmm, innerestin. Any clips??

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

That's a great idea, and I'd at least pay for one of those on my LP Goldtop w/pullup tones for splitting. Another idea might be to add a preamp to a LP like mine, so just like the Clapton strat, you can have a boost control to beef up the split humbuckers.
If it's in humbucking mode, the boost would take your PAF's and turn them into something as hot as Customs or a Dimebucker. I've never messed with a preamp attached to passive pickups, but it does sound like an interesting idea.

Your pickup should be called the 'Barlo'

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

That's a great idea, and I'd at least pay for one of those on my LP Goldtop w/pullup tones for splitting. Another idea might be to add a preamp to a LP like mine, so just like the Clapton strat, you can have a boost control to beef up the split humbuckers.
If it's in humbucking mode, the boost would take your PAF's and turn them into something as hot as Customs or a Dimebucker. I've never messed with a preamp attached to passive pickups, but it does sound like an interesting idea.

Your pickup should be called the 'Barlo'

I have already decided that if this gets done...it should be the Doc Barlo Set!

GJ, I'm so glad that we're on the same page!!!

 

[BachToRock]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

Dr. Barlo... the 59/Custom Hybrid would be smokin for you to try out... using the Custom coil slug and 59 screw then rewire one of your tone pots as a spin-a-split and you will have some great tones! The JD tele is wound with 43 guage just like the Custom coil... The spin-a-split produces a really cool tone when you turn it just a tiny bit above "0" as well!
The full humbucker tone is like a "STRONG" PAF...
This is how I have my guitars wired up... the single coil tone of the Custom slug coil is very convincing... a bit more Tele than Strat...

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

Thanks guys.

BtR, thanks for the information.

I tried the hybrid with various pickups. A custom custom and a 59b, another one with the same custom custom and a PGb. I even did one from a gibson 498T and a 490R. Did not work for me it wasn't as clear as I wanted it to be. That's why I think I am better off by sticking to the regular ~8.00K PAF's with #42 gauge wires.

BTW, I did not know JD was #43, I always thought it was done from #42, as Fralin's regular tele and blues special tele leads are done. The blues sp. I have measures something like 7.30K, and the JD is like 7.80K. I gotta say I am suprised. I think we wouldn't get Evan or Scott Miller chime in here and give the details about the wire and the insulation. Trade secrets and all, I respect that.

I was thinking along the lines of a PAF set (with that tapped slug bobin on both) with a standard 8.50K bridge and 7.80K neck both done with #42 Plain Enamel. Using the tap on the slug coil of both of them, I'd turn the slug coils into 7.30-50K on the bridge, and 6.00-30K in the neck. Both would then be Plain Enamel insulated, thus regarding the tele bridge, there wouldn't be any problems. The vintage strats are with Heavy Formvar, so the tapped slug of the neck wouldn't be a very accurate strat single coil, but it is a trade-off anyway, in which I don't wanna sacrifice the PAF tone, rather the single coil tones.

Actually, at first I was thinking of using the screw bobin in the neck, but reading through Seymour's q and A, I came across the following:

101. What is a quick way to make a humbucker sound like a single coil pickup for doing sessions? Art Weber-Pittsburgh, Pennslyvania
I’ve found the easiest way to convert your standard humbucker to a single coil sound (if you don’t have any coil splitting switches) is to remove one row of adjustable poles in your pickup. By removing the adjustable poles you are using only the stud side of a typical humbucker. You actually have a stronger magnetic field on the stud side of the pickup than the adjustable side using 5/40 x 3/4” long fillister head screws. You can easily put them back in when your done the session. Make sure you don’t use a screw driver wider than the screw head as you could burr or scrape the bobbin.

That's why I now think that asking for the tap on the slug coils is a better option.

Maybe I should shut up and send an email to MJ, and hear what she has to say. :smack:

B

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

when you split it, you want the slug coil to be the one your using...you also want that to be the one with the "extra" windings...and if it can be done that coil should have alnico rods, while the screw coil has an alnico bar, and normal windings. Trust me when I tell you that MJ can also make special bobbins which may enable her to also put a tele plate on the botton of one coil on the bridge bucker! I saw, call her and see what she says...

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: New HB pickup idea: Feasible?

when you split it, you want the slug coil to be the one your using...you also want that to be the one with the "extra" windings...

Right on bro!

...and if it can be done that coil should have alnico rods, while the screw coil has an alnico bar, and normal windings.

Of that I am not too sure. As I am saying I don't wanna give in from my PAF HB tone. And using rod magnets might change the magnetic field and thus in the "standard" mode could result in a more condensed tone. I dunno. I feel like I'd rather go with slug coils transferring the magnetic field from the bar magnet underneath. No?

Trust me when I tell you that MJ can also make special bobbins which may enable her to also put a tele plate on the botton of one coil on the bridge bucker! I saw, call her and see what she says...

The slugs are already touching the baseplate of the HB, no? I therefore think that whole deal would have a baseplate (tele-like) both on the bridge and neck.

You are right, should contact the CS. Anyway here I definitely got what I wanted from you guys. Thanks fellas. And none of you said, "C'mon man that's stupid, shame on you..." and such.

B