New member, new pickup questions!!

[Johtosotku]

Hi all!

I've been lurking around this forum for a long time now, and now that I'm ready to get some new pups I thought I'd ask help from you guys. Great forum you have here, seen lots of people get help, hope you can help me too!

I'm looking for new pickups for my two guitars, a Gibson SG Standard and a Jackson DK2 superstrat. The Jackson already has a JB in the bridge and I like it a lot. I'll be playing them through a Marhshall JCM-800 and a Podxt. Here are my questions:

1. I want my SG bridge pup to have a good thrash metal rhythm sound, a la testament, slayer, metallica etc. I want a tight focused sound with very much mids and good bass response. I often have to turn my mids to 10 on my amps. I want to have pinch harmonics easily. The Gibson 498T pickup I have now is too harsh and horribly thin, especially on higher strings.

2. I'm somehow at a loss here with the neck pickup issue, I'm not absolutely certain what's wrong and what I want, there is a problem but I don't know how to put it in to words. I will be using the neck pickup for leads and solos mostly, but I would like it to be versatile for different musical styles. I want much mids from the neck as well. I now have a Gibson 490R pickup in my neck position.

What would be a good balanced set for my SG with good coil split tones?


Now for the Jackson, I want it to complement my SG in its tone. I think of using it mostly on cleans like SRV and solos like Iron Maiden, and maybe on some Van Halen type of rock. I like the JB in the bridge a lot. I want the other pickups to balance well with it. The pups I want to change are duncan designed single coils, and they seem a bit weak and don't seem good with the JB.

3. Which pickups would be good in my Jackson for the sounds I'm looking for?

4. I'd prefer the singles to be hum-cancelling, but will I sacrifice something if I go that way? Are the cool rails and vintage rails etc. singles or hums, what kind of sounds do I get out of them? If they're hums, can I split them and how good will it sound?

Thanks for your replies in advance. I live in Finland as you all can see, and I can't use the return policy, so I'd like (as a poor student) to get it right the first time. That's why I'm here for you!


-Antti

 

[Guitarist]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

1) SH-6 Distortion. Perfect blend of having nice thick mids, and a super tight bottom end make this one perfect for the metalhead.
2) SH-1 59 or SH-2 Jazz. Both are incredibly versatile and have great voices. The 59 seems to sing more to me through high gain, so that may be your ticket.
3) Classic Stack. Very glassy and smooth singing voice make this a perfect match for the JB.
4) Yes, the CS are single coils and hum-cancelling.

Hope you find what you're hearing in your head!

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

Thanks, the Classic Stack sure seems to be the way to go! I'll be looking into those when I place my order. The distortion also seems interesting and worth a thought.

What about the neck hums, do they have more mids than they show on the tone chart? They seem to be pretty low.

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it. Give me a shout if you need my advice in anything!

 

[Rainmaker]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

Bump

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

A distortion or JB in the bridge of your SG may be the ticket. As far as the neck I'd go jazz but that's a personal preference. I think the jazz is a great neck pup and very articulate. It handles low tuning well too.

For the Jackson I'd say the same thing classic stacks or vintage rails (although they might be too buckerish) for hum cancelling. For for a warmer sound go with an A2P singles or the antiuqities. These will warm up the guitar significantly in the neck position.

Luke

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

Thanks, I think I'll stay in the SC territory with the Jackson. I think the sound what I'm looking for in them is kind of clear and transparent, and I think I heard that in the sound clips of the classic stacks. Naturally, I'll consider all new recommendations too!

I think that I don't want a JB in the bridge of my SG as I already have it in the bridge of the Jackson, they could sound too much the same for my tastes. The distortion sounded strongest in the sound clips too. I'm not sure about the neck pup yet. I don't think that I'll be downtuning anytime soon, been there, done that, love the E now. It sounds so clear to me.

Now, how would you compare the distortion and jazz (and others too, if you have ideas) to Dimarzio Tone Zone and PAF Pro? I've heard people get good results with them as well, and they seem to have the mids as well. What are your experiences like with them?

Thanks for the replies so far, keep 'em coming!

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

Why not an EMG 81/85 set for the SG?

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

Care to tell me more about your experiences with the EMG's, please?

I'm a little afraid of loss of dynamics with the EMGs, they are pretty important to me. I have no problems with the battery at all. Also, neither one of those can be split. I do know about the 89, but is it really an 85 and a SA? Not a compromise? I do know that many of the bands whose sound I like use EMGs, so it should be an obvious choice for me, but I have my doubts. I'd like to be able to play more than just metal on my SG, even if it's my primary choice.

Elaborate, please, if you can and don't mind.

 

[Forbes]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

The Invader is a very bass/middy pickup and may be too far, i don't know what it would sound like in your SG, but im sure it wouldnt sound thin, and you could get a good metal sound from it.

 

[Forbes]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

oh and welcome to the forum!!

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

Thanks for the welcome, Forbes! My stay has been pleasant so far, so who knows how long I'm going to linger here!?

I'd certainly like the invaders mids, but I'm afraid of the huge bass. The SG is a mahogany/rosewood beast after all. How tight and chunky is it?

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

Any new thoughts from anybody else? My order's deadline is approaching soon, and I have to make my choices.

I'm quite set on the Classic stacks for the Jackson, thanks to Guitarist and Luke Duke for your time, I wouldn't have gone for those hadn't you told me about them!

I'm still confused about the SG, haven't really found SDs with enough mids. The distortion is a strong candidate for the bridge, but SD's neck pup choices haven't spoken me over yet. I want mids! Anybody know pups for me!?

Thanks for the replies so far, let's still see if anyone wants to chime in.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

I'm still confused about the SG, haven't really found SDs with enough mids. The distortion is a strong candidate for the bridge, but SD's neck pup choices haven't spoken me over yet. I want mids! Anybody know pups for me!?

You want mids eh??

For the most mids possible from a passive pup go with the Custom Custom. It does have the potential to sound muddy in your SG BUT if you use 500k pots it will help and maybe a treble bleed ciruit. The distortion is going to have good mids as well be not as prominent as the CC. The dist. is also going to have higher output. If you go with the CC you will have a looser low end than if you went with an A5, or ceramic magnet pup.

Luke

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

I know what you're talking about. My fears about the CC are exactly what you posted, looser low end and buttery (the wrong way) highs. Thanks for the insight, but I think it will set me even farther from the CC than I was before.

What I see in mids that charm me are overall punch and richness of tone. I especially need the mids in my neck pickup. Here is where I think that I find SD's catalog lacking.

Any more thoughts, even from other pickup manufacturers?

 

[Mephis]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

Care to tell me more about your experiences with the EMG's, please?

I'm a little afraid of loss of dynamics with the EMGs, they are pretty important to me. I have no problems with the battery at all. Also, neither one of those can be split. I do know about the 89, but is it really an 85 and a SA? Not a compromise? I do know that many of the bands whose sound I like use EMGs, so it should be an obvious choice for me, but I have my doubts. I'd like to be able to play more than just metal on my SG, even if it's my primary choice.

Elaborate, please, if you can and don't mind.

Ill tell you this up front, It will cost you out the ass, but get the pickup set i have in my platium pro (60n/89b) you WILL NOT be sorry, but itll cost atleast $230 in pickups alone!! :saeek: If you cant find a sound you like with that set, then i would feel sorry for you, cause i can go from strat sound to a total thrash death metal sound, then over to blues with ease. (for the SG)

 

[joelap]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

Invader in a Mahagony guitar is asking for a bit of trouble usually. It probably wouldnt be too bad in an SG as it is in a Les Paul. Mahogony is a deep, dark sounding wood. The Invader is a deep, dark sounding pickup. You'll get a really low sound, heavy in bass frequencies out of it. I always thought Invaders worked best in strat-type bodies.

+1 for the Custom Custom if you want mids.

 

[Lightning]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

I'll probably get burned at the stake for saying this but the 498, SD Custom types, and WCR Fillmore use the same wire gauge. Each distinguishably different yet more in a category to themselves.

The JB, DD, and Invader use a smaller gauge wire. The Invader is less scooped than the JB and DD. Maybe that's you but you should probably ck out the Breed, Tone Zone, and the Air Zone in that order (Steve's Special has imbalanced coils i.e. a serious mid scoop). These pickups are like over wound DDs.

OR ask SD to build you a over wound JB (17.5k) that lowers the upper mid peak of the JB kinda bridging the gap between the 498 and the JB.

I have no experience with those DMZ pickups but I am intrigued cause the past 2 weeks I've been hung up on this 17.6k I paid $5 dollars for...I think it's pretty close to the Breed but has screws.

Also I can see why the Tone Zone exist cause it has imbalanced coils...that $5 dollar pickup could use a little more scoop than it has.

L

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

Mephis, thanks for your tips, but I think I'll stay on passive pickups for this time. If they don't work, I'll try the EMG's.

Joelap, thanks to you too, I think I'll steer away from the Invader. I second your thoughts about it. I really like the deep dark sound, but I think I have enough of it already. What do you think about the negative sides of the CC that I asked about?

Lightning, good advice you have there. I didn't quite get the hang of all about it, propably because of my english. Would you care to clear it to me a bit?

Are you saying that JB and DD are more mid scooped than the Invader?

Does overwinding give you more mids and output, or what does it do?

What is it that imbalanced coils do exactly? They cause a mid scoop? I always thought you could get good coil split sounds from humbuckers with imbalanced coils, because the stronger coil is closer to a SC coil, am I wrong?

Thanks for everything guys, don't forget that I need a neck pickup too! Most people give recommendations only for the bridge pup, but I need advice for the neck also. I appreciate all the time you give out to help me. Thanks!

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

Those buttery highs are present with any A2 magnet pickup. The buttery (to my ears) refers to the fluid sound. Not the sharp stacato that you get from an A5 or an ceramic.

I still say that a duncan distortion (as far as high output) for the bridge would be your best bet because it has good harmonics, mids, and highs.
Nex in the high output category I'd say the Custom. Still a ceramic magnet with good mids.

Don't underestimate the power of PAF style bridge pups as well. If you want to have something in between a high output and PAF take a looke at the screaming demon.

The neck could go one of many ways. I'm still recommending the jazz. The jazz has a nice clear sound that overdrives nicely. It also cleans up the neck position of a guitar nicely (I think they all sound muddy). After I installed my jazz my bass player told me "THAT is what a neck pup should sound like". Sticking with an a5 magnet will keep your neck sound articulate, especially in an all mahogany guitar. You could also go with the 59 which has a slightly different eq. It is more mid-scooped but your mahogany body/neck will even out the sound.

If you decide to go with an A2 magnet in the neck I'd suggest a PG b/c it has more high end than a Seth or an A2P.


Luke

 

[Lightning]

Re: New member, new pickup questions!!

By the way...PAF clones are #42 wire. The 498 group is #43 wire. Also add the Screaming Demon to that group although it is so underwound that it doesn't really feel like it is in that group. It actually could use more mid range. I have a #43 that measures 13k that has that mid peak simular to the 14k #43s so some where between I think there is a special pickup that hasn't been made yet. If you go with a Demon in the bridge about the hottest #42 neck pickup that balences is a 7.1 to 7.3. Maybe the Demon in the Dinky and move the JB to the SG?

"Are you saying that JB and DD are more mid scooped than the Invader?"

I think the invader has a flatter eq and more output, it's more over wound than the distortion. It's been some years...but I have a clip I should post. It is so fat that it could possibly be a #43 but I think it is the screws that flatten the eq out. I have a #43 pickup wound out to 16k and it doesn't feel like the Invader no matter the magnet. The mid range is wider and compressed like the invader but it doesn't have any snatch in the upper mid like the JB/DD (#46). The Invader does have some snatch.

"Does overwinding give you more mids and output, or what does it do?"

More output and brings everything up but then highs start deminishing. SD made the statment about the JB "without sounding dark" that's what he was refering to. Remember guitar speakers start topping out at 5khz and were still calling the 4khz peak (audible peak, not calculated resonant peak) of the JB upper mid (The Snatch).

"What is it that imbalanced coils do exactly?"

Each coil retains its voice in a series wound (standard humbucker) configuration. School taught me to anticipate an amalgamation (series is additive on the sine wave so this pickup would just be its own thing but contraire, I can hear both pickups individual voice so if you were to take a coil from a 500T and swap it on your 498...Well what do you think? Oh the 500T is like an underwound DD...for my taste the 500T coil is too thin to mate with a 498 coil but a DD with a custom coil? Now what do you think?