New orange OR30

[Mikelamury]

I'm sure you guys have heard about the new orange amp that's about to come out. They market it as being almost as loud as a 100 watt amp from sound pressure samples. What does that mean exactly and is it possible for a 30 watt amp running a quad of EL84's to be as loud as a 100 watt amp?

https://orangeamps.com/or30/

 

[Rex_Rocker]

is it possible for a 30 watt amp running a quad of EL84's to be as loud as a 100 watt amp?

I guess it is if it has no low-end at all like a Vox? Low-end takes the most energy to amplify.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Also, I haven't really seen the vids, but it supposed to be a higher wattage OR15 or a lower wattage OR30? Because I think I'd like it if it's a louder OR15, but I'm not interested at all if it is an OR50 with EL84's.

 

[beaubrummels]

For a start, 100w is only 3db louder than 50w, which is the smallest increment the average person can detect as a change in volume. (I think air pressure is 6db? I have to remember my textbook, but it's something like double power is a 3db boost in power and a 6db boost in air pressure, or vice-versa.) If you have efficient speakers, or a lot of them, a 30-50w can put out the air pressure of a 100w.

Wattage ratings are not so fixed and absolute. Companies measure them under varying conditions to claim one or the other. Same reason they're claiming air pressure to get to 100W, but they didn't say how the measurement was weighted. A 1968 Park 50w can put out as much as 90w at it's output due to the transformers it has along with the relatively simple circuit, while a 100w Marshall JCM900 may put out only 80w at it's output with it's particular transformers and more complicated circuit with an effect loop yadda yadda.

EL84s are a 6W tube. They are running at their limit to put out 30W. That's where transformers, rectifier and the whole power section design helps out.

 

[El Dunco]

For a start, 100w is only 3db louder than 50w, which is the smallest increment the average person can detect as a change in volume. If you have efficient speakers, or a lot of them, a 30-50w can put out the air pressure of a 100w.

Wattage ratings are not so fixed and absolute. Companies measure them under varying conditions to claim one or the other. A 1968 Park 50w can put out as much as 90w at it's output due to the transformers it has along with the relatively simple circuit, while a 100w Marshall JCM900 may put out only 80w at it's output with it's particular transformers and more complicated circuit with an effect loop yadda yadda.

Am I right or wrong that a 100watt head will at least have more headroom than a 50watt head? I know an amp would have to be 500watts to be twice as loud as a 50watt amp but in my experience, I find my 100watt amps hold together with better definition and cleaner, tighter bass than lower wattage tube amps which have a tendency to fall apart.

This can be very desirable to some people who want a more vintage-accurate tone but not quite so much for more technical metal for which the sound comes mostly from the preamp, with the power amp sounding best contributing to the voicing/colour with its high volume capabilities rather than a source of overdrive.

 

[beaubrummels]

Am I right or wrong that a 100watt head will at least have more headroom than a 50watt head? I know an amp would have to be 500watts to be twice as loud as a 50watt amp but in my experience, I find my 100watt amps hold together with better definition and cleaner, tighter bass than lower wattage tube amps which have a tendency to fall apart.

This can be very desirable to some people who want a more vintage-accurate tone but not quite so much for more technical metal for which the sound comes mostly from the preamp, with the power amp sounding best contributing to the voicing/colour with its high volume capabilities rather than a source of overdrive.

My understanding is headroom is more a matter of circuit design. For example, you can get more headroom out of any amp by lowering the gain factor of the V1 tube. There could be other reasons for why your 100W amps seem tighter and cleaner, for example are you running the higher watt amps into a difference cabinet? Or do the 100W sound cleaner through the same cab as the lower watt amps?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

3dB is quite a lot, especially at loud volumes. The louder the sound level gets, the more 3dB makes a difference because they're logarithmic.

Just try this experiment. Try a 4x12 with T-75's along with a 4x12 loaded with V30's. I bet you'll have a hard time even hearing what the T-75 cab is doing. At least, that has been my experience. That's a 3dB difference in the cabs.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

My understanding is headroom is more a matter of circuit design. For example, you can get more headroom out of any amp by lowering the gain factor of the V1 tube. There could be other reasons for why your 100W amps seem tighter and cleaner, for example are you running the higher watt amps into a difference cabinet? Or do the 100W sound cleaner through the same cab as the lower watt amps?

Headroom just means how loud anything can go without distorting. What you're reffering to with V1 means preamp headroom. Not poweramp headroom.

In the case of the poweramp, that translates to a cleaner, less compressed sound with more extension towards both sides of the spectrum.

 

[El Dunco]

They fot sure have more headroom in the power section. Did an experiment with a single rectifier vs my dual and the single started to flub out at some point through to same cab. Still loud enough without doing that but you better make sure the sound guy gives you enough foldback.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Looked pretty interesting until I saw the price tag.

 

[beaubrummels]

Headroom just means how loud anything can go without distorting. What you're reffering to with V1 means preamp headroom. Not poweramp headroom.

In the case of the poweramp, that translates to a cleaner, less compressed sound with more extension towards both sides of the spectrum.

Yep, I know what headroom is. That's why I said to my understanding it's more a matter of circuit design. There are different designs for all the sections of amps.

"The louder the sound level gets, the more 3dB makes a difference because they're logarithmic." That's not accurate. A 3db increase in sound pressure is a 3db increase in sound pressure. What will be different is your sensitivity to the change by frequency, as human ears are not linear. The human ear can distinguish decibel changes at lower volumes better than when it's up toward the limit of human hearing.

For the T-75 vs V30 experiment I'd have to know what amps were run into them, what signal was provided as a source, and if they were indeed 3db different at the speakers. You measured each cabinet individually from 1 meter away with a sound pressure meter?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

For the T-75 vs V30 experiment I'd have to know what amps were run into them, what signal was provided as a source, and if they were indeed 3db different at the speakers. You measured each cabinet individually from 1 meter away with a sound pressure meter?

The same amp. I once plugged my guitarist's Rockerverb into my cab (Marshall with V30's/Creamback H's) and his cab (Orange with T75's and Cremback M's) at the same time. We matched the output impedance on his amp accordingly. We didn't want to blow his output transformer, LOL. Both cabs side by side. Both were 16 ohms. We were impressed because we couldn't hear his cab at all to the point where we had to check if it was even plugged in. We got really close to it, and we could hear it then.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Looked pretty interesting until I saw the price tag.

I still haven't seen the price tag. But I thought that might be the catch.

 

[Mikelamury]

I still haven't seen the price tag. But I thought that might be the catch.

It's $1799

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Oh, wow. UK-made, I'm guessing.

Personally, I'd rather have a TH30.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

It's $1799

That's less crazy than I was expecting :lmao:

It's a nice sounding amp, but if I was going to put down that kind of cash I'd rather up my budget a bit and get a Rockerverb 50...

Having said that...I could'nt be happier with my two SS Oranges (@ $600 each) so no real interest in a Rockerverb either :laugh2:

Still it's a decent price for a loud UK-made Orange amp I guess & should sell pretty well..

 

[Mikelamury]

That's less crazy than I was expecting :lmao:

It's a nice sounding amp, but if I was going to put down that kind of cash I'd rather up my budget a bit and get a Rockerverb 50...

Having said that...I could'nt be happier with my two SS Oranges (@ $600 each) so no real interest in a Rockerverb either :laugh2:

Still it's a decent price for a loud UK-made Orange amp I guess & should sell pretty well..

This is also there first amp with a tube rectifier. It is also cathode biased(Class A)

 

[Ascension]

Am I right or wrong that a 100watt head will at least have more headroom than a 50watt head? I know an amp would have to be 500watts to be twice as loud as a 50watt amp but in my experience, I find my 100watt amps hold together with better definition and cleaner, tighter bass than lower wattage tube amps which have a tendency to fall apart.

This can be very desirable to some people who want a more vintage-accurate tone but not quite so much for more technical metal for which the sound comes mostly from the preamp, with the power amp sounding best contributing to the voicing/colour with its high volume capabilities rather than a source of overdrive.

My experience is more headroom and tighter and deeper bottom end. Have had several versions of the same amp in both 50 and 100 watt versions. Some times I prefer the 50's to the 100's because they are a little softer in feel.

 

[El Dunco]

My experience is more headroom and tighter and deeper bottom end. Have had several versions of the same amp in both 50 and 100 watt versions. Some times I prefer the 50's to the 100's because they are a little softer in feel.

Exactly. On the subject, it’s surprising (or maybe not) how many “amp in a box” preamp pedals there are an overabundance of don’t hold up in a band/performance setting. By either not cutting through, lacking the requisite volume without assistance, or for whatever reason just washing out when they’re turned up which is pretty useless no matter how “faithful to the real preamp circuit it’s derived from” it is or how good they sound at low volume in youtube demos.

 

[beaubrummels]

This is also there first amp with a tube rectifier. It is also cathode biased(Class A)

Their AD50 and Custom 50 had the option to run 30W Class A, so it's not totally new. The tube rectifier might be new, however.