New Pups and Top Wrap

Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

I am also a recent convert to the top wrap. I've got my 57' RI that I need to do. I had done it, but last time I had the strings off I put them back on in auto pilot mode and forgot to top wrap. No sense burning a brand new set of strings, so next time.

Great looking LP you have there and congrats on the new pickups.
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

Is the top wrap supposed to decrease tension on the bridge, or does it decrease tension on the string?
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

I think people do it because they want to slam the tailpiece to the body for additional contact or something, without the strings pushing against the back of the bridge.
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

My understanding is that the Top Wrap reduces the break angle of the strings across the bridge improving string life and making bending and playing smoother. I can say my LP plays smoother and the 10's that I use feel lighter.

So I'm guessing the tension on the bridge has decreased.

I also looked around at the musicians using it...Duane Allman, Billy Gibbons, Joe Bonamassa and probably more. When I saw Duane's LP's strung this way I figured it was the real deal.
 
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Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

Mincer said:
Is the top wrap supposed to decrease tension on the bridge, or does it decrease tension on the string?
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Both. On vintage LP's, it can help with string tension collapsing the ABR bridge, especially when the strings would rest on the back of the bridge. There was variation on neck angle over the years, so on some LP's it was key to achieving a decent setup. With construction methods being more exact these days and angles consistent, it's usually not "necessary" for a good setup.

It does make a noticeable difference in string tension..... strings feel more slinky. Some people say it makes 10's feel like 9's and so on. That's a YMMV thing ultimately, but in my experience it does make a difference.

Some do it because their idols did it. Whether having the tailpiece tight to the body makes a difference in tone it hotly debated. IMO, it can't hurt to have the most solid hardware connections possible. To me it just makes sense. So my preference is tailpiece down tight for solid coupling and strings top wrapped for the feel and perceived difference in tone I hear. I can't really explain the difference in tone, but it is there for me. It's just something slightly sweeter, but that might also just be my brain having mini strokes.
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

I admit, I didn't grow up with these bridges/tailpieces, so I wonder why people do what they do with them. What is the difference between top wrapping and just raising the tailpice? Do all bridge/tailpiece combos benefit from this? What would be the downsides?
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

Mincer said:
I admit, I didn't grow up with these bridges/tailpieces, so I wonder why people do what they do with them. What is the difference between top wrapping and just raising the tailpice? Do all bridge/tailpiece combos benefit from this? What would be the downsides?
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I gave it some thought and just raised my tailpiece
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

I string my LP the non-top wrap way. My tailpiece is not lowered all the way down and I have no issues with it. Strings are as bendable as any guitar should be and tuning stability is fine.
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

Mincer said:
I admit, I didn't grow up with these bridges/tailpieces, so I wonder why people do what they do with them. What is the difference between top wrapping and just raising the tailpice? Do all bridge/tailpiece combos benefit from this? What would be the downsides?
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Really, there is no difference. Either method ultimately reduces the break angle of the strings behind the saddle and results in a slinkier feel to the strings.

Now, throw in all of the myth and conjecture and superstition of Les Paul's and how player A got a certain tone on Album B with a 59' LP and you'll find yourself knee deep in the hoopla. There is a strong belief among the die hard LP'ers that having the tailpiece down tight against the body helps with sustain and better tone. Then you top wrap the strings for a slinkier feel. Some of that belief goes back to the 52'-55' LP's, before the TOM/Stoptail combo came out. These older LP's had a combo single piece bridge/stoptail that was a top wrap/wrap over design. Some swear it makes for the best sounding LP ever.

I put the tailpiece down against the body because I figure having tight fitting hardware can't be a bad thing, and I like how the strings feel when I top wrap.

Does that clear anything up, LOL?
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

I thought '52 Les Pauls had to wrap *under* in order to have playable action. Or is it just that Gibson players need to do the opposite of whatever the factory did in any case?

52_gib_lespaul_3.jpg
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

Well, the trapeze tailpiece has issues all its own. I left that one out for simplicity sake.
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

Depends on the guitar too, my classic seems to sound better with the stop bar up instead of slammed and top wrapped despite me wanting it to look cool top wrapped. Material probably makes a difference on tone in concert with tension also but I haven't gone crazy with different metals so far.

Love me some PG's, nice axe!
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

Mincer said:
I admit, I didn't grow up with these bridges/tailpieces, so I wonder why people do what they do with them. What is the difference between top wrapping and just raising the tailpice? Do all bridge/tailpiece combos benefit from this? What would be the downsides?
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Same break angle and same strings results in the same feel and sound from the strings, no matter how you arrive at that angle...outside of a vast difference in the length of string behind the saddle. E.g. a trapeze tailpiece with a long run of string between bridge and tailpiece will indeed bend slightly differently than a stop tailpiece set to have the strings break at the same break angle as the trapeze (say 330 vs. 335; the 330 bends more "rubbery"). But with top wrap vs. standard, you're talking maybe 3/8" difference in additional string length behind the saddles – not enough to be felt.

As for why I don't top wrap, 1) I prefer not to run my strings over a nicely plated piece of hardware. 2) I prefer not to wrap that end of a string around metal hardware any more than it needs to be. 3) I don't like the way it looks. 4) I see no particular advantage to having the tailpiece tightened all the way down – not even in reasonably conceived theory. All a tailpiece needs to do is to hold the strings at a fixed location. The Gibson tailpiece does that just fine, and the screws and studs allow a large enough range of adjustment to cover any neck angle one is likely to encounter in this dimension. In other words, top wrapping is a solution for a nonexistent problem; it's just a style of doing it. If you like the way it looks, go for it. It probably won't hurt anything that can't be replaced.
 
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Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

I have to wrapped for years. I started doing it just because I like the feel. After having it like that for a few months then stringing it normal. I can tell a difference. It's not a huge difference but its there.
It doesn't help I have hearing like a bat because of my bad eyes. People will always argue one way or the other. Some hear a difference some don't. Every aspect of tone is subjective.
To me it's not different than people that like to slam a strat bridge to the body. Or that like to use those trem stoppers. The more string that is touching the bridge or tailpiece should transfer more vibration. Depending on the material used.
And the more mass of the bridge that is touching the body should transfer more or the vibration. Depending on the wood used. But it's all in what an individual hears and feels.
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

Does every form of Tuneomatic benefit from this, or just certain types? Like I've seen some bridges and tailpieces that are countersunk, and some that are a slightly different design (resomax, etc). I am interested because I will be getting a guitar with a tailpiece like this after many years of using trems.
 
Re: New Pups and Top Wrap

I think the design has certain elements that follow through to the slightly different design changes as you go from company to company and design to design. The main thing you want to avoid is the strings hitting the back of the bridge as they break to the tailpiece. As long as you can fit a piece of paper between the strings and the back of the bridge you're fine. If the strings ARE hitting the back of the bridge, either raise the tailpiece to compensate or top wrap if you can/want to.

When the strings hit the back of the bridge, it can cause tuning issues, change how strings resonate, cause issues with overtones, etc. Everything else is just noise and you have to decide how much of that noise matters to you.
 
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