NEW QUESTION - FRAMUS v RIVERA v BOGNER - Calling GEARJONESER

[OlinMusic]

Ok so here is the deal

This forum has ALWAYS given me interesting if not great advice. I looked to move my Mark IIB and fellow Forum friends convinced me to wait it out and I got an amazing trade for a Framus Dragon. This amp is amazing.

However, in the meantime I picked up a Rivera Knucklehead really cheap.

So, now with all this unexpected - what do I do?
I think the Rivera and the Framus give me every tone on Earth. I LOVE the Framus tone, very thick and Marshall-y at the same time with a HUGE low end, and a sweet clean for a 100w amp - but here is where it gets sticky -

MY ALL TIME FAVE AMP IS THE BOGNER SHIVA - I have never owned one, just jammed with one. I think they are the most toneful and sweet amp. I think they need help to do metal, but they just have that gorgeous reverb and clean. In fact, I found one cheap in my area today - WITHOUT verb.

ok ok, where I am going is, do I sell out the Framus or the Rivera or both and get a Shiva? Or am I just fixated on the Shiva for no real reason? I have never really gigged with one, and never owned one. I have A/Bd it against walls of amps and it beat out everything from the Bogner Ecstasy to the Roccaforte and Genz Benz. It just always had that extra sauce and tone.

WHAT TO DO?


HEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLP!

 

[some_dude]

Re: NEW QUESTION - FRAMUS v RIVERA v BOGNER - Calling GEARJONESER

WHAT TO DO?

Enjoy your new amps for a bit, then if in a couple months you still feel the need to switch, do the switch. But I wouldn't do it until you learn how to play your current amps, and get the chance to A/B them with a Shiva afterwords.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: NEW QUESTION - FRAMUS v RIVERA v BOGNER - Calling GEARJONESER

FWIW, the EL-34 Bogner Shiva ended my tone search, it may end yours too (I've owned stuff like the Bad Cat Hot Cat, Hughes & Kettner Triamp and Fargen VOS). I've never been a huge fan of Rivera's, but don't let that impact your decision. You know what you want to hear in your head, so only you can make the decision

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: NEW QUESTION - FRAMUS v RIVERA v BOGNER - Calling GEARJONESER

if you're looking to play metal or heavier rock, stick with the framus for sure. i played through a shiva the other day...amazing sounding amp for clean, blues and slightly gritty rock...perhaps some AC/DC like stuff too. however if you want to play metal it just doesn't have enough gain for it at all. still a great amp for what it's ment for though!!

i'd stick witht he framus for sure! i keep looking at them and am very tempted to sell my engl powerball and pick up either a cobra or dragon.

-Mike

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: NEW QUESTION - FRAMUS v RIVERA v BOGNER - Calling GEARJONESER

Nothing has more gain than a Powerball which is BRUTAL

I love that the Dragon has the Marshall thing going. I chose the Dragon because it was fatter as opposed to the bright sounding Cobra which is based on the Recto.

I have never managed to Crank and ENGL but they are straight metal to me. The Lead channel on the Framus is transparent and has the gorgeous Bogner Ecstasy kinda lead tone in it too. VERY FAT!

THE SHIVA is god like in tone - HOWEVER I TOO FEAR it just does not have the gain for all out metal. That's what bothers me. If you want to do anything beyond AC DC, even gainy fusion, I think you need pedals - and then that begins a WHOLE new search to see what works. The Framus has the tone in for lead. I actually love the lead channel. The crunch channel is kinda middy, but would sound totally AC DC with a band.

I recorded the lead channel a bit today and WOW. Can't wait to finish these tunes up with it.

The Rivera I got for one reason alone - it was cheap, quality, and can do ANY gig from country to rock. It's not my fave amp on earth but I could take it on tour if I had to. Problem here is I can't afford all this, so something has to go if I want a Shiva.

I admire what you both had to say.

 

[Bludave]

Re: NEW QUESTION - FRAMUS v RIVERA v BOGNER - Calling GEARJONESER

I own the Shiva that Mike played thru. Its a 1 12" combo 80 watts. Hands down the Shiva is the best channel switching amp I have ever played thru. I am not a metal player and IMO the gain on the Shiva is a lot more I would ever need. I have only had this amp for a short time, but I am diggin' it a lot. My suggestion to you would be :

1. PLay thru a few other model Bogners. The Extcacy and the Ubershell. If metal is what you are looking for it may be in one of those.

2. Don't compromise. If you want a Shiva with Reverb, wait until you can find what you are looking for.

I got a pretty good deal on mine, but it is a combo and I really wanted a head and a 2 12" cabinet. The 2 12" cab would probably have been better for me because its equipped with Vintage 30's vrs. the 80W celestion that is in the combo. I am more of a blues player, so the amp is really good for what I like to do, but I think it can/could be better with the right speakers. I will eventually get a 2 12" for this. Great amp. I love it!

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: NEW QUESTION - FRAMUS v RIVERA v BOGNER - Calling GEARJONESER

Sell it all, and get an Ecstasy. It's the type of amp that melts into you and becomes an extension of you and your guitar. Just like a Vetta, it's not the type of amp you can demo at the store and tap it's potential......you only get an idea of what each channel's flavor is. I'm constantly discovering things about it that help me improve it's tone......things like the assignable presence, which allows you to tailor the high end on all the channels differently.

I've gone through somewhere around 65 guitar amps, like most Marshalls, Fenders, Mesas, and other boutiques. The 101B is the end of the road, if you're a fan of EL-34's. I can make that amp get everything from a Twin to a crushing wall of death, just by flicking switches, and turning knobs.

I'll be a lifelong fan of Bogner. I've even thought of selling all my other amps and picking up a 6L6 Shiva, 6V6 Duende, and EL-84 Metropolis, and considering myself done with amp aquisitions for the rest of my life.
OK, that's the JONESER comin out!!!! hahahaha

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: NEW QUESTION - FRAMUS v RIVERA v BOGNER - Calling GEARJONESER

Nothing has more gain than a Powerball which is BRUTAL

I love that the Dragon has the Marshall thing going. I chose the Dragon because it was fatter as opposed to the bright sounding Cobra which is based on the Recto.

oh yeah, the powerball can do tear your face off metal without even trying. it's actually a bit much for me. a bit edgy sounding at times since i tend to like a real fat and warmer high gain. thus why i think the dragon may fit me better since it is said to have a monster low end...juut like you said. i still need to play both the cobra and dragon to decide.

-Mike

 

[some_dude]

Re: NEW QUESTION - FRAMUS v RIVERA v BOGNER - Calling GEARJONESER

I love that the Dragon has the Marshall thing going. I chose the Dragon because it was fatter as opposed to the bright sounding Cobra which is based on the Recto.

Odd. I always felt the Dragon was more inline with the Recto than the Cobra...which I felt was more like a 5150 or something.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: NEW QUESTION - FRAMUS v RIVERA v BOGNER - Calling GEARJONESER

NOOOO the DRAGON IS VERRRRRRRRY MARSHALL.

The lead channel is pure cream, VERY FAT, very big and still has transparency. It's not as responsive as a vintage MArshall but hey it lives in the modern realm. The company told me themselves that it's modeled on Marshalls. Channel 2 is very midrange crunch.

I like the Dragon in that it's fat and creamy and warrrrrrrrmm. I keep the DEEP knob low low low and the bass is still BRUTAL. It has indivudual presence for each channel and MIDI. Cool stuff. My fave part is the DUAL master volumes so I can use Channel 3 for rhythm and lead. I like that this is the first 3 channel where the LEAD channel is HEAVY gain but still clear enough to use for other applications like rhythm.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I too am sold on the BOGNER tone - it just has MOJO and MAGIC. I am also slowly getting sold on DIEZEL since hearing many pros use it. It has a one of a kind tone.

The ECSTASY is wayyyy expensive. I almost bought one for 2300 but decided not to because I have never gotten one to sound better than a Shiva. I DO NOT KNOW how to set them or use them and no one showing me could explain. JONESER you might have to educate me. AND WHICH MODEL????

 

[some_dude]

Re: NEW QUESTION - FRAMUS v RIVERA v BOGNER - Calling GEARJONESER

I am also slowly getting sold on DIEZEL since hearing many pros use it. It has a one of a kind tone.

Before you get too sold on Diezel because pros use them, consider that most pros don't use it as their main amp......says something right there, don't it?

 

[Rocker35]

Re: NEW QUESTION - FRAMUS v RIVERA v BOGNER - Calling GEARJONESER

Here's another couple of amps that would be on my shopping list.