ehdwuld
A Ficus
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
brass nuts
I am so curious to see what that sounds like
Stainless steel nuts would be good.
brass nuts
I am so curious to see what that sounds like
kramersteen
PowerMetalRaph
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
I like this.
I like this.
KEAguitars
New member
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
That is pretty much what a zero fret does. I used to make all my guitars with zero frets.
I like this.
That is pretty much what a zero fret does. I used to make all my guitars with zero frets.
Dr. Vegetable
New member
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
I'm interested to hear the results of this also.
I have a semi-hollow with a brass nut, and a couple of old Ibanez-es that have a two material bone+brass nut. These guitars seem to have good sustain, but I really couldn't say how it affects the tone with so many variables at play.
SS is much harder than brass, so I think it would be even more so...
I'm interested to hear the results of this also.
I have a semi-hollow with a brass nut, and a couple of old Ibanez-es that have a two material bone+brass nut. These guitars seem to have good sustain, but I really couldn't say how it affects the tone with so many variables at play.
SS is much harder than brass, so I think it would be even more so...
W
wolf5150
Guest
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
Spent two nights playing it and I'm totally in awe of his workmanship. Tonally I was expecting it to sound bright but in all honesty it sounds beautifully balanced. Open harmonics are much bigger and easier to produce.
Sustain is the biggest improvement...... wow.
It was an expensive job but it was worth every penny.
Spent two nights playing it and I'm totally in awe of his workmanship. Tonally I was expecting it to sound bright but in all honesty it sounds beautifully balanced. Open harmonics are much bigger and easier to produce.
Sustain is the biggest improvement...... wow.
It was an expensive job but it was worth every penny.
LonePhantom
New member
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
So who did it? I'd love to review one.
So who did it? I'd love to review one.
W
wolf5150
Guest
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
He's a local luthier but comes in here.
Calls himself the octave doctor and commented on the 1st page of my thread.
He's a local luthier but comes in here.
Calls himself the octave doctor and commented on the 1st page of my thread.
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
I've got stainless steel frets on my main axe and it made it a liiiiitle bit brighter but nothing you couldn't compensate for at the amp. I don't know whether the OP has stainless frets on this guitars or not but in any case it'll only affect the tone of the open strings anyways.
At any rate I hope the tech rounds off the edges of the nut and a little bit on the headstock sides of the string slots, otherwise you're going to risk more string breakage from sharp edges.
I've got stainless steel frets on my main axe and it made it a liiiiitle bit brighter but nothing you couldn't compensate for at the amp. I don't know whether the OP has stainless frets on this guitars or not but in any case it'll only affect the tone of the open strings anyways.
At any rate I hope the tech rounds off the edges of the nut and a little bit on the headstock sides of the string slots, otherwise you're going to risk more string breakage from sharp edges.
W
wolf5150
Guest
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
All my guitars have SS frets. I love them.
As for the shaping... its perfect.
All my guitars have SS frets. I love them.
As for the shaping... its perfect.
octavedoctor
New member
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
It was me. I was quite pleased with the improvement in sustain and top end clarity but what i think it achieved most was a huge improvement in the intonation and tuning stability. I spent about an hour and a half playing the guitar in (basically wasting the rest of the afternoon's working time) and if I were a better guitarist I could hove gone on longer. Three of us in the shop played it and tried manfully to put it out of tune but couldn't get it to drift by more than a tiny fraction of a cent. It's impossible to intonate a guitar with an earvana nut properly as the reasoning behind them is based on a lack of technical understanding of harmony and equal temperament. Every time I've come across one they've sounded appalling.
It's not entirely about the material either; I make phosphor bronze nuts that hold tuning just as well. The trick is getting the nut slot profile just right so that the string is cradled with a single point of contact at the base of a slot which is approximately parabolic, but with sufficient re-centreing forces to provide the necessary harmonic damping (although in this case I had to fit string trees to aid in that because of the headstock shape).
Tell you what though; i'm not in any hurry to do another one... It's very hard work
It was me. I was quite pleased with the improvement in sustain and top end clarity but what i think it achieved most was a huge improvement in the intonation and tuning stability. I spent about an hour and a half playing the guitar in (basically wasting the rest of the afternoon's working time) and if I were a better guitarist I could hove gone on longer. Three of us in the shop played it and tried manfully to put it out of tune but couldn't get it to drift by more than a tiny fraction of a cent. It's impossible to intonate a guitar with an earvana nut properly as the reasoning behind them is based on a lack of technical understanding of harmony and equal temperament. Every time I've come across one they've sounded appalling.
It's not entirely about the material either; I make phosphor bronze nuts that hold tuning just as well. The trick is getting the nut slot profile just right so that the string is cradled with a single point of contact at the base of a slot which is approximately parabolic, but with sufficient re-centreing forces to provide the necessary harmonic damping (although in this case I had to fit string trees to aid in that because of the headstock shape).
Tell you what though; i'm not in any hurry to do another one... It's very hard work
octavedoctor
New member
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
He does have stainless frets but actually I have to correct you on something; the nut material does have an effect on the fretted notes as well. The reason is that in addition to the lateral vibrations of the string which occur between the nut and the saddle the vibrating string stretches, causing proportional tensile vibrations to travel through the string between tether points - i.e. tailpiece and tuner. At any point where the string is displaced and rests against a supporting material - saddle, leading fret, finger, trailing fret, nut and tuner post - there is a vector component of the string's tension and the potential for energy loss at this point. Not much we can do about the damping effect of our fingers but at each of the other points the harder the material is and the higher it's co-efficient of restitution the less energy is lost. It happens that the lowest energy harmonics are the high end ones. These decay quite quickly and a stress analysis of vibrating strings shows that the high end harmonics are mostly encoded in the cyclic tensile vibrations, so the faster these decay, the faster you lose top end clarity. Having a soft material for a nut will suck top end response from even the fretted notes.
He does have stainless frets but actually I have to correct you on something; the nut material does have an effect on the fretted notes as well. The reason is that in addition to the lateral vibrations of the string which occur between the nut and the saddle the vibrating string stretches, causing proportional tensile vibrations to travel through the string between tether points - i.e. tailpiece and tuner. At any point where the string is displaced and rests against a supporting material - saddle, leading fret, finger, trailing fret, nut and tuner post - there is a vector component of the string's tension and the potential for energy loss at this point. Not much we can do about the damping effect of our fingers but at each of the other points the harder the material is and the higher it's co-efficient of restitution the less energy is lost. It happens that the lowest energy harmonics are the high end ones. These decay quite quickly and a stress analysis of vibrating strings shows that the high end harmonics are mostly encoded in the cyclic tensile vibrations, so the faster these decay, the faster you lose top end clarity. Having a soft material for a nut will suck top end response from even the fretted notes.
LonePhantom
New member
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
It would be awesome if you could find an easier way to make them. It sounds like the results are awesome, and worth experimenting to find that easier method. I'm sure there are many others like me that would dig it.
The phosphor bronze does sound interesting as well.
It would be awesome if you could find an easier way to make them. It sounds like the results are awesome, and worth experimenting to find that easier method. I'm sure there are many others like me that would dig it.
The phosphor bronze does sound interesting as well.
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
Great post... that all makes sense now that I think about it, actually.
What nut material would you recommend for someone that wants the best possible tonal preservation but doesn't want a metal (or at least not stainless) nut?
Great post... that all makes sense now that I think about it, actually.
What nut material would you recommend for someone that wants the best possible tonal preservation but doesn't want a metal (or at least not stainless) nut?
octavedoctor
New member
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
i always default to a material like bone, or a close substitute. I've used corian successfully, although it's crush resistance isn't as good as bone, and some of the phenolic thermoplastics are quite good as well; these are basically similar to bakelite, but a bit harder. I made a nut out of a mains plug patress twenty years ago which was intended as a stop-gap but which I gather is still going strong. Although I don't particularly like Graphtec products I have to admit that tonally, I've been impressed by Tusq, although I don't think it lives up to the "synthetic ivory" label; I think they just mean it goes toasty brown over time! I don't like working it as it seems a little soft but if you drop one it does make an appealing tinkle.
Some of the most commonly used materials I think are really rubbish. Micarta is junk despite it's use as a saddle material by Martin and WTF are PRS doing putting ABS nuts on their guitars? I think they only get away with it because the headstock rake is so shallow that there is hardly any string deflection though the nut. But then they have to make it wider to get the harmonic damping and make the slots really deep and narrow to stop the strings from jumping out so then they bind... Ugh. don't get me started...
i always default to a material like bone, or a close substitute. I've used corian successfully, although it's crush resistance isn't as good as bone, and some of the phenolic thermoplastics are quite good as well; these are basically similar to bakelite, but a bit harder. I made a nut out of a mains plug patress twenty years ago which was intended as a stop-gap but which I gather is still going strong. Although I don't particularly like Graphtec products I have to admit that tonally, I've been impressed by Tusq, although I don't think it lives up to the "synthetic ivory" label; I think they just mean it goes toasty brown over time! I don't like working it as it seems a little soft but if you drop one it does make an appealing tinkle.
Some of the most commonly used materials I think are really rubbish. Micarta is junk despite it's use as a saddle material by Martin and WTF are PRS doing putting ABS nuts on their guitars? I think they only get away with it because the headstock rake is so shallow that there is hardly any string deflection though the nut. But then they have to make it wider to get the harmonic damping and make the slots really deep and narrow to stop the strings from jumping out so then they bind... Ugh. don't get me started...
octavedoctor
New member
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
If there was a high demand for them then I'd get an engineering company to mill some 1/8" bar so it was a spot on fit for a Fender slot; then all I'd have to do is bend it to shape slot and finish it. In some respects the phosphor bronze is tougher because I have to hack it out of a piece of Oilite which only comes as round bars or cylinders (it's designed for industrial bearings).
Wolf5150"s guitar was a little different in that the nut was replacing an Earvana that itself was replacing an LSR so not only did the fingerboard have to have a fillet made to take up the gap, but the nut was a little wider than 1/8" because the LSR takes up a little more space on the headstock side as well
If there was a high demand for them then I'd get an engineering company to mill some 1/8" bar so it was a spot on fit for a Fender slot; then all I'd have to do is bend it to shape slot and finish it. In some respects the phosphor bronze is tougher because I have to hack it out of a piece of Oilite which only comes as round bars or cylinders (it's designed for industrial bearings).
Wolf5150"s guitar was a little different in that the nut was replacing an Earvana that itself was replacing an LSR so not only did the fingerboard have to have a fillet made to take up the gap, but the nut was a little wider than 1/8" because the LSR takes up a little more space on the headstock side as well
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
I once had a guy offer to make me a nut from either Walrus or fossil Mammoth ivory, but I wasn't sure if that was totally legal so I didn't take him up on it.
What's your take on brass nuts?
edit: lol^ maturity ftw
I once had a guy offer to make me a nut from either Walrus or fossil Mammoth ivory, but I wasn't sure if that was totally legal so I didn't take him up on it.
What's your take on brass nuts?
edit: lol^ maturity ftw
octavedoctor
New member
Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
Mammoths have been extinct for about four or five thousand years so ivory derived from their tusks is perfectly legal. No innocent Mammoth will have been slaughtered to feed human vanity. They were around for about 5 million years before extinction so there are still quite a lot of them preserved under the siberian tundra; around 10,000,000 was the last estimate. I have a contact in Europe who imports it and I'm thinking of buying some in, as long as the certificates of provenance are in order. Walrus ivory I'm not sure about. Walrus is an extant species so I'd be disinclined to use it, just in case.
Brass is OK, but it needs to be cold-drawn brass or bell bronze, really. The brass nuts you buy as direct replacements are usually cast and I would never use one; too soft and porous. Compared to phosphor-bronze it is rather malleable but tonally I doubt that anyone would notice the difference. Brass oxidises to form verdigris however, because of it's copper content. P-B is springier and more resistant to oxidising, which is why it is often used in switch contacts and springs in brass and wind instruments like saxophones. A phosphor bronze nut, rather than going green oxidises to a warmer, coppery patina. I have a brass nut on my telecaster because I wanted it to look a bit retro but if a customer wanted a brass nut I would push them relentlessly to choose phosphor bronze.
I once had a guy offer to make me a nut from either Walrus or fossil Mammoth ivory, but I wasn't sure if that was totally legal so I didn't take him up on it.
What's your take on brass nuts?
edit: lol^ maturity ftw
Mammoths have been extinct for about four or five thousand years so ivory derived from their tusks is perfectly legal. No innocent Mammoth will have been slaughtered to feed human vanity. They were around for about 5 million years before extinction so there are still quite a lot of them preserved under the siberian tundra; around 10,000,000 was the last estimate. I have a contact in Europe who imports it and I'm thinking of buying some in, as long as the certificates of provenance are in order. Walrus ivory I'm not sure about. Walrus is an extant species so I'd be disinclined to use it, just in case.
Brass is OK, but it needs to be cold-drawn brass or bell bronze, really. The brass nuts you buy as direct replacements are usually cast and I would never use one; too soft and porous. Compared to phosphor-bronze it is rather malleable but tonally I doubt that anyone would notice the difference. Brass oxidises to form verdigris however, because of it's copper content. P-B is springier and more resistant to oxidising, which is why it is often used in switch contacts and springs in brass and wind instruments like saxophones. A phosphor bronze nut, rather than going green oxidises to a warmer, coppery patina. I have a brass nut on my telecaster because I wanted it to look a bit retro but if a customer wanted a brass nut I would push them relentlessly to choose phosphor bronze.
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Re: New Stainless Steel Nut
Yeah I figured that there weren't any more live Mammoths wandering around (although that'd be awesome if there were) so I figured it was all fossil ivory but I don't know what the legalities of obtaining it are other than digging it out of the ground. Walrus, you can understand, I was cautious about. I think the guy's failure to give me a good answer as to where he got the materials was what bothered me, not the material itself.
Thanks for the info about the brass nuts. You've given me a good bit to think about before I get around to building that next guitar. Thank you!
Yeah I figured that there weren't any more live Mammoths wandering around (although that'd be awesome if there were) so I figured it was all fossil ivory but I don't know what the legalities of obtaining it are other than digging it out of the ground. Walrus, you can understand, I was cautious about. I think the guy's failure to give me a good answer as to where he got the materials was what bothered me, not the material itself.
Thanks for the info about the brass nuts. You've given me a good bit to think about before I get around to building that next guitar. Thank you!
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