new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

[tone4days]

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this lick is composed by building up arpeggios from the chord notes (shown in orange) of a
C dominant 7th chord (C - E - G - Bb) as harmonized in the key of F (so a C mixolydian feel) ...

so the arpeggios are C7th, E-7b5, G-7, and Bbmaj7

try it over a static C Dominant (7th, 9th, 11th, 13th) chord vamp

 

[StrangeSound]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

Awesome! Thanks, this info is gold.

I stumbled across this videos some days ago, I have yet to check out, what he's playing but it's quite happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSNZ28TiKCE&NR=1

I never saw this approach in any books..which player uses it? How did you get the info?

 

[karpathion]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

------------------------------------------------------|-8-
---------------------------------------------------10-|---
------------------------7---------7--10-----7--10-----|---
-----------8---------8---------8---------8------------|---
----7--10-----7--10--------10-------------------------|---
-8----------------------------------------------------|---

this lick is composed by building up arpeggios from the chord notes (shown in orange) of a
C dominant 7th chord (C - E - G - Bb) as harmonized in the key of F (so a C mixolydian feel) ...

so the arpeggios are C7th, E-7b5, G-7, and Bbmaj7

try it over a static C Dominant (7th, 9th, 11th, 13th) chord vamp

haha, thats pretty freakin' cool sounding. i would have never thought of that.

 

[StrangeSound]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

I think that with this approach you might be able to get some saxophon/trumpet phrasing going on. I used to run for scales only but I realize that chordal thinking is where its at but the full potential of this can be discovered after you are comfortable with scales imho.

 

[karpathion]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

i'm thinking speed. if you can do that fast as hell and step up at the end of each progresion. you get some evh sounding stuff. cool lick man.

 

[StrangeSound]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

Here's another one combining a Fm7 and a Gm7 arpeggio over a Fm7 chord, 16th notes


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-----8----------------10--------------------------------------
-10------------8--11------------------------------------------
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It starts with a Gm7 arpeggio, then comes the Fm7 arp, which leads smoothly to another Gm7 arp and the last 2 notes are part of the Fm7 "family"

I hope it sounds good

Oh, and you could tap some notes in between or a note after the 13 on the high e string, tap fret 18 on the high e string but it won't match the 16th system then, try some new things out.

 

[tone4days]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

I never saw this approach in any books..which player uses it? How did you get the info?

i have an instructional dvd 'the blues - from rock to jazz' by don mock ... he talks about arpeggiating 'chord scales' .... his example is over C7 vamps and relates it to the key of F major ... the chord scale for F maj is

F maj 7
G min 7
A min 7
Bb maj 7
C dom 7
D min 7
E min 7b5

he played this lick and i thought it was killer so i transcribed it and thought i'd share

 

[Osensei]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

Man the toughest thing to do is to stop guitar players from thinking about every thing in terms of scales. It's not that there is anything wrong with scalar thinking. It's just that for some reason people have a tough time thinking outside the box.

I personally love the feeling I get when I look into someone's eyes as the light bulb suddenly comes on. For example lots of guys who shred will see a chord like a Dmin7 and think, "Ok, I can sweep arpeggios here". So they'll start sweeping D F A C patterns every friggin time and that's about as far as they'll go in their arpeggio sequence and totally ignore the 9th, 11th and 13th.

What causes this is:

A. A lack of knowledge concerning extended harmonies
B. A lack of understanding the duality btw scales and arpeggios
C. The first two deficiencies leads to lack of realizing chord substitutions

In quantum physics there is a duality that exists btw particles and waves. In other words the two are not really different, but they are in essence one and the same.

You can say the same thing of scales and arpeggios. We are taught to view them as separate entities. Yet if we dissect any scale and rearrange the notes into a specific order, what we reveal is an extended arpeggio that has been masquerading as a scale all along.

Thus the C major scale:

C D E F G A B

becomes:

C E G B D F A

The latter inversion just happens to be a C Maj 9(11)(13) arpeggio. So it is safe to say that the C major scale is really a closed inversion of a C Maj 9(11)(13) chord/arpeggio.

When I discovered this fact it revolutionized my own playing, because I realized for the first time that I didn't have to sweep arpeggios all over the friggin neck in order to fully express a chord that I was improvising against like a friggin sax player.

So if played a series of scale steps like
B C D E, then I had just "expressed" most of the non-extended chord tones within the C Maj7 arpeggio w/o having to leap across a bunch of strings. Another series of steps like A B C D E F# would yield a C Maj7(+11) without having to play a single leap!

In other words, what's the difference? If I play:

C Maj7(+11)(13) as C E G B D F# A (w/ leaps)

or if I play:

C Maj7 (+11)(13) as A B C D E F# (w/o leaps)

or some variation of both:

C Maj 7 (+11)(13) as B A D C F# E(steps and leaps combined)

All of the above would express a valid C Maj 7 harmonic idea.


Once you take this information and add voice leading to your repertoire then you're golden.

P.S.

The real fun begins when you do this to Dom 7 chords! We're talkin chromaticism out the whazooo!

 

[Pierre]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

Holy crap I am so incredibly lost...

What's a chord vamp?

 

[Markk]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

Holy crap I am so incredibly lost...

What's a chord vamp?

Repeated musical phrase. An example of a vamp would be the intro to a song that is also played as the outtro and is also part of a chorus or verse in the background.

So basically, record a C dom7 and play the above stuff in Bill's post.

 

[tone4days]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

In other words, what's the difference? If I play:

C Maj7(+11)(13) as C E G B D F# A (w/ leaps)

or if I play:

C Maj7 (+11)(13) as A B C D E F# (w/o leaps)

osensei raises interesting points as per his usual thoughtful contributions ... to me, the idea of playing wider intervals leads to a different sense of melodic 'space' (notice - different - not better or worse) ...

What's a chord vamp?

a chord vamp - at least the way I understand it - can be thought of as a 'backing track' consisting of only one chord (played with an interesting rhythmic component) over which to play a 'solo'

think of those funky dudes jammin away on a static 9th chord a la james brown's band

 

[DankStar]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

anxious to try it. I need to work on my chops.

 

[Pierre]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

I see... But wouldn't practicing a scale/arpeggio(s) over a static chord be of very little use in real life? I mean it'd work for as long as the chord is sustained/played and then be out of key again unless the next chords magically happy to fit said arpeggios...

 

[tone4days]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

I see... But wouldn't practicing a scale/arpeggio(s) over a static chord be of very little use in real life? I mean it'd work for as long as the chord is sustained/played and then be out of key again unless the next chords magically happy to fit said arpeggios...

its as useful as it is ... only you can decide if it is very little or otherwise

it is the height of obviousness to say that it only works as long as the chord is played ... i think that was made clear from the start ... given that the lick is one measure long, i think there might be at least a handful of occasions where someone plays a tune with a dominant chord that lasts one measure (i dinno, like, say, a 12 bar blues which i bet one or two guitarists on here might play from time to time) ... and given that the lick is clearly described as existing in a single key (specifically the key of F), as long as the next chord is in the key of F, there really isnt a problem

or am i missing something?

 

[CapoFirstFret]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

its as useful as it is ... only you can decide if it is very little or otherwise

it is the height of obviousness to say that it only works as long as the chord is played ... i think that was made clear from the start ... given that the lick is one measure long, i think there might be at least a handful of occasions where someone plays a tune with a dominant chord that lasts one measure (i dinno, like, say, a 12 bar blues which i bet one or two guitarists on here might play from time to time) ... and given that the lick is clearly described as existing in a single key (specifically the key of F), as long as the next chord is in the key of F, there really isnt a problem

or am i missing something?

You are correct...and also it can be used over an related key (say the key of Bb) to give a bit of an outside feel! If you were to play it over the F7 of a Bb scale you'd get a rather interesting tonal quality as well. or you could even put it over the Bb7 of an Eb scale for an even more outside quality. It's endlessly useful depending on how you wanna approach it.

 

[FretFire]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

This thread is a slap in the face that I really need to cram some theory knowledge in my head. It's a deep hole though, and I'm not sure where to start!

 

[tone4days]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

This thread is a slap in the face that I really need to cram some theory knowledge in my head. It's a deep hole though, and I'm not sure where to start!

cool!

for starters, huh? ... hmmm ... i guess it kinda depends on what kinda learner you are ... i am a combination of reading and doing - both very visual ... i envy the "listenin" guys who can hear something and intuitively 'grok' it deeply .... for me, i'd start with paper and pencil by understanding the 'spellings' of chords formulas in a major key (e.g. major chord is the 1, 3, and 5 of the key center, etc) ... then i'd pick a key and spell all the chords out ( key of C - major is C E G)

then i'd harmonize the scale

C D E F G A B C becomes Cmaj7
D E F G A B C D becomes Dmin7
E F G A B C D E becomes Emin7
F G A B C D E F becomes Fmaj7
G A B C D E F G becomes G7
A B C D E F G A becomes Amin7
B C D E F G A B becomes Bmin7b5

then i'd pick up the guitar and play the major scale (C D E F G A B C ) ascending and descending ... then i'd play those chords all in a row to 'hear them' sound like an ascending and descending 'scale' of chords

i'd then goof around with 'progressions' of nothing but those chords to see and hear how they all sound like they are 'related' ...

i'd record a simple progression of chords (or even just a one chord vamp) and noodle the notes of the major scale against it to hear how each degree of the scale either sounds 'in' or 'out' ...

then i'd play argeggios of those chords against the chord vamp to see how you can chain them together melodically ... some ascending, some descending ... then use some scale notes before or after the arpeggios to make phrases .... then chromatic notes to do tension/release ...

i'd be sure to play in a buncha different keys all over the neck so that i do not get over rutted in one key/position

hope that helps - if i glossed over something that isnt clear, post a Question and i'd be happy to fill in as best i can ... i bet other guys have other approaches that i hope they will share too

good luck - have fun
t4d

 

[tone4days]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

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i added a descending lick that kinda corresponds to the first one (at least in my ears it does) ... it is a b!tch (for me) to play descending - i need to hit the shed! .. if any of you have a better layout, post it - i'd love to have a better one that this

enjoy

 

[Pierre]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

its as useful as it is ... only you can decide if it is very little or otherwise

it is the height of obviousness to say that it only works as long as the chord is played ... i think that was made clear from the start ... given that the lick is one measure long, i think there might be at least a handful of occasions where someone plays a tune with a dominant chord that lasts one measure (i dinno, like, say, a 12 bar blues which i bet one or two guitarists on here might play from time to time) ... and given that the lick is clearly described as existing in a single key (specifically the key of F), as long as the next chord is in the key of F, there really isnt a problem

or am i missing something?

I wasn't criticizing, I was asking :laugh2: I never had a single music lesson in my life man, this is half Chinese half gibberish, but I'm slowly getting there. Your explanation actually made quite a lot of sense! Thanks!

 

[FretFire]

Re: new (to me) happenin' dominant lick

Some great tips here, thanks for taking the time. I haven't been able to play guitar for the past two weeks, I'm anxious to get back home and get some playing in again.