New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

Axl H

Axl H

Blowthebloodydoorsoffologist
Yeah,

My ENGL Screamer combo has served me very well for a year almost, there has been some times where a JCM800 was what I wanted, but then I'd crank the ENGL and return to it, within a second.

After this year, I am dead set on keeping this amp.

The basic tone is great, but I need it tweaked a bit.

Right now, it is very aggressive, more of a kind of single note clarity sound, than a full "Wall of sound" type sound, and it is very bright, and TIGHT!

I am looking for a more of a wall of sound type of sound, still with good single note clarity for metallica stuff like Blackened, and it needs to be less bright.

I am looking to get more over in the ball park og a Boogie MkIIC+ or a MkIV.

Right now it has 12AX7s in the preamp (4 i think?) and two 5881s in the power amp. All of them are sovtek if I recall correctly.

It is going through a Marshall JCM800 4x12" with Classic Lead 80s from Celestion.

My guitar is a superstrat with EMG 81.

I hope you can help me find the right set of tubes for my need :)

Thanks.
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

copy from other thread:
For a more mesa tone you'd definitely want to darken things a little and take out a bit of aggression.
JJs are my primary choice for ENGLs so i'd say go for 6L6GCs for the poweramp.
Since you want something a bit smoother you might want to try a Goldpin ECC83s or Goldpin ECC803s(longplate tube). Goldpins are smoother and a little less gainy than the regular ones.
If you want to keep the gain levels yoo might ry getting a ECC83s graded for high gain from eurotbues and fill the other 3 slots with goldpins to provide gain and also smoothness.
All the tubes i mentioned are made by JJ(just to clarify)
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

JJs for sure, as Loserchief already mentioned.


How much gain do you use?
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

I use about 45-50% on the heavy lead channel..

My EQ is this:

Drive: 11:30AM
Bass: 2PM.
Mid: 11AM
Treble: 9AM.
Presence: 2PM.

Lead volume: 4PM.

Master Volume: Between 11AM and 2PM.

Where can I get JJs in germany or something?
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

www.tubetown.de

excellent store!


Try to level "treble" up around 12 o'clock and set the presence down around 9 o'clock.

The presence knob works on overdrive mode only..isn't your clean tone too dark?

If you have hot pups..try gain around 9:30..worked wonders for me. :)


I biased the Engl myself and I think the anode potential on the Engl should be around 430V. When I put the stock Engl tubes in, I had a great range on the bias trim pot (22-40mA I think it was) but when I switched to the JJs the trimpot lost its huge range, I maxed it out at around 32mA. Probably still too cold (have to change the trimpot) but I'm ok with the tone now.

The stock Engl tubes are rated 24 or so and the JJs around 41..that explains the difference I think.
 
Last edited:
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

OMG!!! No wonder it sounds like chainsaw with those EQ settings. Before changing the tubes i'd definintely work with the EQ a bit.
so if i translate the settings correctly your settings are like this:
Drive: 4,5/10
Bass: 7/10
Mid: 4/10
Treble: 3/10
Presence 7/10
Lead Volume 9/10

if i got this correctly you're doing something very wrong. It seems like you try to compensate for the lower gain of a screamer(it's not that high gain) by adding obscene amounts of presence to get the illusion of real distortion. The problem is that you'll get tons of fizz but a quite undefined and solid statey sound out of any ENGL when set like this.
The screamer can do those metallica tones quite fine, but not with your EQ settings. Because of the bright nature of Engls it's better to boost the treb and keep the presence down(tighter,clearer and less fizz). If you want to add gain,just slab a tubescreamer in front of it or just add amp gain if you are not a t max allready(you still have room)

Try something like this:

Drive: 7-8/10(to compensate the lower presence)
Bass: 6-7/10(should work with the 81s)
Mid: 6-7/10/still very tight but sounds more natural than the scooped out mids)
Treb: 6-7/10(depends on the pup)
Presence: 3-4/10(keep it down especially with 81s)

This is only a starting point since i never used a screamer with 81s but those settings slay on both my Sovereign and my buddy's screamer and should give you some metallica. Might have to tweak a little, but too much presence is a curse for ENGLs.
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

Drive around 3-4 in the distortion channel is more than enough imo!

Remember..less gain is more! :D :D
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

Just tried this:
Drive: 7/10.
Bass: 7/10.
Mid: 6/10.
Treble:6/10.
Presence: 3/10.

IT sounded ALOT better.. I could crank it, without my ears hurting.

Still it isnt all there, the tone is abit too sterile... It still needs that last bit of push, also I would love it, just a bit more tight :)

Thanks bros.
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

StrangeSound said:
www.tubetown.de

excellent store!


Try to level "treble" up around 12 o'clock and set the presence down around 9 o'clock.

The presence knob works on overdrive mode only..isn't your clean tone too dark?

If you have hot pups..try gain around 9:30..worked wonders for me. :)


I biased the Engl myself and I think the anode potential on the Engl should be around 430V. When I put the stock Engl tubes in, I had a great range on the bias trim pot (22-40mA I think it was) but when I switched to the JJs the trimpot lost its huge range, I maxed it out at around 32mA. Probably still too cold (have to change the trimpot) but I'm ok with the tone now.

The stock Engl tubes are rated 24 or so and the JJs around 41..that explains the difference I think.
Click to expand...
After Loserchiefs suggestions, I finally got myself a clean tone! Have I been missing that alot lately :)

(I am looking into some bluesy stuff, and of course this amps sounds great for that as well :) )
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

StrangeSound said:
Drive around 3-4 in the distortion channel is more than enough imo!

Remember..less gain is more! :D :D
Click to expand...

I know, but when talking about Metallica tone it's Mesa rectos which totally anihilate the screamer when it comes to available gain so you'll need to use more to come close to that. I'd never go for more than 3-4 on my powerball's channel 4

AH^DK said:
Just tried this:
Drive: 7/10.
Bass: 7/10.
Mid: 6/10.
Treble:6/10.
Presence: 3/10.

IT sounded ALOT better.. I could crank it, without my ears hurting.

Still it isnt all there, the tone is abit too sterile... It still needs that last bit of push, also I would love it, just a bit more tight :)

Thanks bros.
Click to expand...

Ok, now that your EQ is alright i'd say get JJs in there(eurotubes.com is the best source imo even though they are in the US you'll still have better prices and service than anywhere in the EU).
6L6GCs for the poweramp and i'd say regular ECC83s for the pre(maybe a high gain graded one in V1 for some extra punch).
This should make the amp more lively and might add the extra push and tightness you want.
If that's still not enough put a tubescreamer in front of it with the gain low and the volume high(just a bit of dirt,mainly a clean bosst). This should make things even tighter and of course will push the amp even more.
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

Well back in those clips, James used his MkIV or MkIIC+ and a Strategy 400 PowerAmp.

Kirk had CAEPreamp in his rack, a MkIV, TriAxis, and Mesa Strategy 400 poweramp.

Could you describe their character a bit more, versus the standard 5881? And how close would I be able to come to the clips, sound wise?

And which extra gain Preamp tubes are good? And last, what are the alternatives, and how do they differentiate? I heard some good stuff about TAD tubes.
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

5881 is i think the old military code for the same type of tube that is the 6L6GC.
I don't know how the sovteks in your screamer sound but when retubing my sovereign(it still had stock engl tubes in) the new power tubes made things more transparent and musically rich(hard to describe for me but you'll hear the difference).
I'd say you can get very close to those tones, since they are basicly just generic thrash tones, nothing special imo. A screamer can dot aht very well with some tweaking of the EQ.
Since i swear by JJs for my Engls i don't know about TAD but the High gain graded ECC83s tubes offered by Eurotbues are superb. They have the same tone as the regular ones but they add some extra kick to the sound when used in V1.
For a full retube i'd recommend eurotubes since even when importing from the US from eurotubes you'll still get away cheaper than you'd do with TAD(that's what was the case when i decided where to get my sovereign tubes)
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

Okay cool...

I dunno man if I should just trade this thing for a MkIV or MkIII...
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

if your are dead set on the Mark series tone you'd probably be better off with a mark. I wouldn't do it since i prefer the unique Engl tone over Mesa tone but that's a matter of taste.
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

Well thought about it for a few days and I am keeping the ENGL :)

But I am getting new tubes.

So far you guys have recommended JJs, but Rid and another technician says TAD 6L6s and some Tung Sol 12AX7 or summet.

I dunno mates.. what should i get?
 
Re: New tubes for ENGL Screamer, but which ones?

Try an EMG 85 in the bridge. I found with my savage 120 that the 81 sounded very sterile and harsh. The 85 should fatten up the tone and not make it as bright.
 
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