Next forum pickup design (2014)

Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

No, but it was the only thing I could think of that was made from two short three slug coils. But then again, I don't see why it couldn't be mounted to a humbucker baseplate.

Yea, that's kind of what I'm thinking.

Do the z-coils hum cancel?
Z-coils.jpg

Now I can see this, only in a wide-range cover, or something similar.
 
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Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

Yea, that's kind of what I'm thinking.

Do the z-coils hum cancel?
View attachment 51565

Now I can see this, only in a wide-range cover, or something similar.

Yeah that is what I meant as option #2 in my first post in this thread.

Given how great precision basses do with this design I would be extremely curious to see how something like it works for guitar - in a humbucker package. Curious enough to buy a forum pickup.

The specific objective would be to have a neck pickup that is not boomy in a LP but has more meant to it than a -say- Strat in a humbucker case.
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

I was messing around with a test guitar once and put a set of P-Bass PUs on it. I angled them so each one only sensed 3 strings. I do not remember what it sounded like, it was probably 34 years ago.
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

Something along those lines in a humbucker sized pup would be extremely intriguing. If you could incorporate the best of both worlds. Would it have magnetized slugs or sit on a bar magnet?
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

One of the crazy ideas I had when I was thinking of trying to make a pickup would have been a humbucker, only in an X. Like one of these Z coils, and another one in mirror config, laid on top of the first one. So it's a humbucker that would split front-bass/back-treble or opposite. I have no clue if this sort of thing would be possible.
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

OK, tirekicking time.

Before I go off with my inane ideas, let me say this: no weird mounts, OK? No pickups requiring extra routings, new pickupguard or special humbucker rings. That limits the audience too much, or worse leads to bad experiences as people open their lovely custom shop package today and toss it in the drawer til the end of time tomorrow.

Now, my idea is what I consider a "proper" big magnet Stratocaster pickup and a split pickup.

#1:

Big Magnet stratocaster pickup, Blackmore style.

The Quarter Pounder doesn't count since it is way too hot. Blackmore used the Schecter F-500s that have the big magnets but they are vintage class wind, not hot winds. They have awg42 or 42.5. I haven't been able to get my claws on one of those suckers, but Rio Grande makes a similar design and I have one of those and AHHHHHH yes that is where the Blackmore hides. I also kinda hired Zhang to rewind some of my SD QPs that way, just held up by my backlog of getting things out of old guitars (sorry, Zhang, will follow through eventually).

Anyway, I think this would be a good design. I think that some prototypes should be made with awg42 and awg42.5, because the thick wire might not fit and/or the in-between wire might be better. I also would very much like to try at least two magnet lengths. I think that compensating for the larger diameter by making it a bit shorter, so that overall magnetic power stays in normal bounds, might come out very well.
Yes yes yes yes yes..

I mean how can't you love THIS tone? Out of STRAT no less?!

On the P90 front I've got to say that the P90 Custom model is often overlooked but is an AWESOME sounding hard rock pup. I believe they should have put that tone into a phat cat at some point.

I also think that some other Strat sized buckers with blades would be cool, or maybe a few with the 59/JB style adjustable poles. Dmz definitely has a lot more options there. I also believe that a few new offerings in that configuration would be very marketable for SD. I've known a lot of guys who went with JBjrs or Hot Rails (more choosing Hot Rails) because they didn't want to mess with another pickguard.

Oh and it goes without saying that there should be more Tele bridge pups in the line up. I adored my old QPs, but they fell flat on their face for anything but hard crunching power chord work...I wonder if the Schecter approach would work there....
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

Something along those lines in a humbucker sized pup would be extremely intriguing. If you could incorporate the best of both worlds. Would it have magnetized slugs or sit on a bar magnet?

Probably Fender style rod magnets. Otherwise you'd have to mess with half-width magnets or something.
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

Yeah that is what I meant as option #2 in my first post in this thread.

Given how great precision basses do with this design I would be extremely curious to see how something like it works for guitar - in a humbucker package. Curious enough to buy a forum pickup.

The specific objective would be to have a neck pickup that is not boomy in a LP but has more meant to it than a -say- Strat in a humbucker case.

Probably Fender style rod magnets. Otherwise you'd have to mess with half-width magnets or something.


Something like this:

split_hum.jpg

?

You could have a full magnet in there, and a pair of regular bobbins. Just not have pole pieces in half the bobbins on opposite sides. ;)
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

I'd prefer the magnetized slugs myself I think, I've only very recently dipped my toes into the pickup winding pool. It just seems it would cause it to keep far more of it's singlecoil personality while giving you hum canceling and could be wound for some more grunt so to speak.
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

#2:

This is a much more untested idea, but I would really like to see a split style guitar pickup like a Precision bass pickup. In a humbucker casing. G&L puts that design into the commanche and some Tele clone but those are not interchangeable with normal pickups.

I think that this could be an excellent approach toward a neck pickup for a Les Paul that is not boomy, has the single pickup point thing with less cancellations but still has a lot more meat than putting a Stratocaster pickup into a humbucker casing. Not to mention it cancels hum.

You just described the Fralin Twangmaster. His P-92 is similar too, but wound more like a P90. The Twangmaster is a true split single coil in a humbucker case.
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

The Quarter Pounder doesn't count since it is way too hot. Blackmore used the Schecter F-500s that have the big magnets but they are vintage class wind, not hot winds. They have awg42 or 42.5. I haven't been able to get my claws on one of those suckers, but Rio Grande makes a similar design and I have one of those and AHHHHHH yes that is where the Blackmore hides. I also kinda hired Zhang to rewind some of my SD QPs that way, just held up by my backlog of getting things out of old guitars (sorry, Zhang, will follow through eventually).

I was just thinking about this idea today, I'd live to try a low output Quarter Pound. How about AlNiCo II quarter pound sized magnets? How about three regular sized A5's in the treble side and three Quarter Pound sized A2's in the bass end, or vice versa?

As for the target tone, I'd want something hot but still bright with some quack, because the current Quarter Pound is way hot and way dark. TBH, I'm surprised the stock SSL4 is as hot as it is with a DC resistance of 13k ohms, that's kind of nuts to begin with.

Even if anyone can make an educated guess as to what results this would produce, I'd be interested in hearing your guesstimate.
 
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Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

OK, tirekicking time.

Before I go off with my inane ideas, let me say this: no weird mounts, OK? No pickups requiring extra routings, new pickupguard or special humbucker rings. That limits the audience too much, or worse leads to bad experiences as people open their lovely custom shop package today and toss it in the drawer til the end of time tomorrow.

Now, my idea is what I consider a "proper" big magnet Stratocaster pickup and a split pickup.

#1:

Big Magnet stratocaster pickup, Blackmore style.

The Quarter Pounder doesn't count since it is way too hot. Blackmore used the Schecter F-500s that have the big magnets but they are vintage class wind, not hot winds. They have awg42 or 42.5. I haven't been able to get my claws on one of those suckers, but Rio Grande makes a similar design and I have one of those and AHHHHHH yes that is where the Blackmore hides. I also kinda hired Zhang to rewind some of my SD QPs that way, just held up by my backlog of getting things out of old guitars (sorry, Zhang, will follow through eventually).

Anyway, I think this would be a good design. I think that some prototypes should be made with awg42 and awg42.5, because the thick wire might not fit and/or the in-between wire might be better. I also would very much like to try at least two magnet lengths. I think that compensating for the larger diameter by making it a bit shorter, so that overall magnetic power stays in normal bounds, might come out very well.

Hm, this reminds me of the tappable, big pole single coils that came in the old Ibanez Blazers. No idea what they're like though and what kind of wind they have but imagine they have some nice bit of girth thanks to the bigger poles.
bl500-01.jpg


It would be good, I suppose to have some options in the big pole pu department in terms of winds, as QPs are aimed at the hotter end of the scale.
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

I have a Roadstar with those pickups like the Blazer. They sounded very lackluster. They were made with a base ceramic magnet like many lower cost "factory" single coils. I made pickups similar to what you're describing. QP rod magnets (with proper string spacing to fit those covers) and wound them more vintagey but calibrated. Now I quite like them.

DreX mentioned 3 large/3 small magnets. I have done this also. It sounds extremely good. I have done it where the treble strings have the fatter magnet. There's no need to mix magnet materials. The poles balance just fine. For mine, I used 2 Strat magnets on the bass side, 2 Tele magnets in the center, and 2 QP's on the trebles. Awesome pickup. You guys could commission a 3x3 or 2x2x2 single coil. I would probably always prefer the thick poles on the treble side, but you could make them with no lip so they could be flipped (or lefty)
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

Something like this:

View attachment 51568

?

You could have a full magnet in there, and a pair of regular bobbins. Just not have pole pieces in half the bobbins on opposite sides. ;)

Nah, that's not the way to go with the long coils. Useless coils with no magnets will not improve the sound.

The pickup you link to specifically probably has slugs under the cover in the part with no screw poles.
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

I have a Roadstar with those pickups like the Blazer. They sounded very lackluster. They were made with a base ceramic magnet like many lower cost "factory" single coils.

Yeah. The split pickup you can discuss whether bar-on-bottom might work, but for a Blackmore style pickup you definitely want actively magnetic rods.

As I said earlier, one things I would try is shorter rods to make it more balanced. No idea whether you can buy that.
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

I like Frank's idea, I'd never have a use for a normal output single myself, but that could be really cool for those that do.

I vote for more in the tele range (tapped SSL-6 tele bridge with a baseplate!) or something more in the HB sized P90 range.

This other thing sounds weird just to be weird, and we've already done that a couple times.
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

I like the HB size traditional sound P-90 idea
and
The new Strat Quarter Pounder idea.
It makes me wonder about the pick-ups that Mark Knofler used in his Schecter Strats, and if a similar spec SD custom Quarter Pounder could have that magic???? :onder:
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

I'm in the same boat as you guys on the Fuglies.

Personally, I think the mini humbucker/firebird line-up could use some work. What I'd really love to see is a vintage-voiced firebird bucker in a full-size humbucker cover. Something with the chime & sparkle that a full-size humbucker just can't deliver. To me, that would be unique and offer something no one else is doing while still being a drop-in replacement.
 
Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

#2:

This is a much more untested idea, but I would really like to see a split style guitar pickup like a Precision bass pickup. In a humbucker casing. G&L puts that design into the commanche and some Tele clone but those are not interchangeable with normal pickups.

I think that this could be an excellent approach toward a neck pickup for a Les Paul that is not boomy, has the single pickup point thing with less cancellations but still has a lot more meat than putting a Stratocaster pickup into a humbucker casing. Not to mention it cancels hum.


No, I believe that under the hood this has two regular width coils. What I'm thinking of is a pair of short coils.

You just described the Fralin Twangmaster. His P-92 is similar too, but wound more like a P90. The Twangmaster is a true split single coil in a humbucker case.

I like this idea, my only issue being that humbuckers tend to cancel out some frequencies vs. single coils, even if you're doing a 3+3 humbucker like the z-coils mentioned earlier.

I'd really like to see something like the wide range humbucker, but with a tapped neck coil so you can get true single coil sounds too. Because the Strabro 90 does both my favorite single coil sound, and my favorite p-90 sound, I feel like the 3-screw + 3 slug coil could work really well.

So, you'd have a total of 6 alnico slugs, and a bar magnet - the slugs would influence the sound more I would think, being closer to the strings and all, so you would probably have the 3 slugs on the neck coil on the treble side, and on the bridge coil on the bass side, if that makes any sense.

For good measure I'd also wind it with a decent disparity between the coils, so you could get:

- Series (neck coil tapped)- very clear yet full and sing-y humbucker sound (kind of like a cross between a seth lover and a jazz)
- Series (full neck coil) - with the wider disparity between the coils, this would be like a massive single coil - almost p-90 combination of girth and clarity.
- Parallel (neck coil tapped)- kind of like a covered tele neck single coil, very clear yet with less presence than a strat single
- Parallel (full neck coil) - Maybe this would be closer to a p-90 than series? I'm not sure.
- Split (full neck coil) - Strat single sound, kind of like the strabro 90 but lower output

It would be kind of like the everything 'bucker - a single pickup that you could get any sound from. I have a ghetto-modified sh-55 and I can say that with A3 pole pieces on the bass strings and an a2 bar magnet, the series, split, and parallel sounds are on point. All I have left to do is to get some 42 awg wire and wind the slug coil to capacity to see what the other 3 sounds would be like.

As I tend to favor lower-output pickups, I feel like you could do the whole thing with 42 awg and still get great results.
 
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Re: Next forum pickup design (2014)

The new Strat Quarter Pounder idea.
It makes me wonder about the pick-ups that Mark Knofler used in his Schecter Strats, and if a similar spec SD custom Quarter Pounder could have that magic???? :onder:

I am not much of a Knopflerist but that should be the same Schecter F-500s that Blackmore used and that I am trying to emulate, no?

I never got a chance to get one of those suckers to measure the wire gauge, though. (BTW, the reissue is garbage)


It so happens that a loaded pickguard of F-500s appeared on Ebay today. Only $899. Anybody in the mood to take a hit for the team? :D
 
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