OK, so apparently, some Epis are going to have the Gibson headstock now.

Well, i dunno. Maybe i got a good one, but one thing i am 100% sure of is my epi LP special TV yellow is an incredible guitar. Just for reference, i've been playing since the early 70s and done uncountable gigs so i' not stranger to what a great guitar is. And that special is incredible, so much so it became my #1 and i swear i think it may be the best sounding guitar i have ever owned. And thats a VERY long list.
Anyways, i explained all that because the standard i recently got hangs very nicely with that special. I realize they are 2 different things, but the quality level of the standard's tone is anything but mediocre, and thats with what i consider very average stock pickups. I have no doubt with great pickups it will be very hard to find any typical gibson production model let alone the greeny to be notably better as far as tone. And as for playability, nothing at any price is gonna be better I have been able to get the action lower then any guitar i have ever owned w/o buzzing. It's actually shockingly low w/o buzz. I've gotten other guitars as low but not w/o some degree of buzz. There was one high fret but 30 minutes of leveling and its now perfection. Even with that high fret which was minimally high, it had great low action. I intend to install a set of pearly gates in it and if they sound as good as the reviews indicate i have no doubt this thing will be fantastic sounding. So like i said, maybe i got a good one, i don't know. Or maybe you have had some mediocre ones. All i know for sure is that of the uncountable guitars i've owned this LP easily sounds well within the standard of tone i hoped for when i got it and with a significant tonal upgrade i think the duncans will make it will be extremely good. The special's P90s are so good i left them in. Better balanced than the gibsons in my former gibson special and as good in all other respects. It would have been nice if the standards pups were equally good but then thats unlikely given the fact P90s are said to be a pickup thats hard to make a bad one and thats certainly not the case with HBs. In any case, you have your feelings a about it and i have mine, but then we may have had very different experiences depending on the luck of the draw with the ones we bought. I am waiting on a seller to respond on a particular set of PG duncans and if i get the answer i want i will post a review on how the standard sounds stock compared to the PGs.
Yeah, they can be made to sound good, no doubt. The thing is you occasionally find the "magic" one, as you do with Gibson.

Personally, for me, their QC problem isn't really in the construction/finish department. It's the frets. Both of mine had the issue. It was bad on both.

OK, agreed, a fret level, and it's all fine and dandy. But the fret material they use is also really cheap. I must have played the gibson like 90% of the time compared to the Epi 1959 I had. Yet, the Epi was showing more signs of fret wear than the Gibson.

Most reviewers' experience I've seen seem to agree with my experience with Epi about the fretwork. Personally, bringing a new guitar home, stringing it up with my prefferred set of strings and bringing the action to where I like it only to find I cannot have it that way because I get dead notes all over the fretboard REALLY bums me out, because that means I have to take it somewhere to have my frets level and recrowned, and that means I'm going to have to wait a whole week or so to even be able to play it. I don't know how to do the process myself. I guess that's my next a so that I can skip the wait altogether. But I mean... should new guitars be like that? I wouldn't think so, personally. Especially when the LPC is 800 and the 1959 is 1K. I mean, I get it with 500 dollar and below guitars. But just to compare, I have NEVER had an LTD that had that issue out of the box.
 
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Investigating my standard today, far as i can tell it's 3 piece. I don't know much about gibson and how they do things, but fender has always used 2 and 3 piece bodies even for the higher end stuff like AVRI and i'm sure the successors to that line. So if it's 3 with a veneer, i'd say cool. Veneer is not going to do anything negative and will make the back look better. I've seen a lot of fenders where mismatched grain on bodies look horrible. In fact i have a strat like that which i;d have preferred to been sandwiched with a single nice veneer. Being a burst with black edged they certainly could have.
 
Hi, thanks for the interesting thoughts. I'm new to guitars, but I've already learned that 3-piece bodies are common for many guitars, including Fender and Gibson. I read a lot here. I've seen a lot of Fender guitars with uneven grain patterns on the body, and it can look not very nice.
 
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Mm, the Greeny seems to be harking back to some details a few MIJ Epis had back in the day, like the headstock and ABR-1. Though the bridge appears to be bushing mounted on the Greeny, like Gibson USA style, rather than posts directly into the wood.

My few cents (sorry for the essay :D, but in the interests of public service since we're sharing our newer Epi experiences):

The prices are getting a bit silly, even with the artist tax on the various sig ones, since the only differences from regular models are usually the pups. Once you get into 1k+ territory, there are many, arguably better, more competitive options. An Epiphone that's a copy of a Gibson at that point is a bit 'eh', perhaps, though they seem to be positioning themselves as 'the guitar that's some steps up from your first cheapie if you're determined to ultimately get a Gibson'. Yet, as has been said by others in the thread you can get various used Gibsons at this point, and if exactitude in looks/specs are less important, various Gibson style guitars, like Sire, FGN, a number of Japanese copies, and so on.

In the sub 1k, especially with the 'inspired by Gibson' stuff, I'd say they have stepped up a bit, maybe in response to the wider market - e.g. Squier and Gretsch seem to offer well appointed and good looking reissue type models with the Classic Vibes and Electromatics respectively. The return of Epiphone originals like the Coronet, Wilshire and Crestwood is also a good move.

Like gimmieinfo, I have a similar experience with my newish Epi - a pelham SG Special. With guitars in this price bracket, I'm always expecting to do some work anyway, so no shockers. First, it's a handsome guitar (who doesn't like pelham?), and the upgrade to the pups, electronics and nut they've done in recent years is a big plus. The P90s sound very nice, and the jack and switch are really good and solid.

The only major con out of the box was also the frets - very rough but level, something they should take care of in the factory, really. The size is medium, not medium jumbo as advertised.

The other thing I had a slight issue with was the wraparound - the tolerance between the parts is poor so it tips forward, I use 9s so the high E buzzed across the neck and would skate across the lightning bar with bending. I got some Faber bushings and locking studs, which took care of that, and helped with the sound too.

Cosmetically the guitar is good; no neck dive either. Interestingly, it has a long neck tenon like the oldies, fwiw. Another mod I did out of the gate was get rid of the quick connect stuff and converted it to 50s wiring, which brought back some high end and clarity the tone was lacking. The guitar does have linear taper pots all around which I'm not into, so I'll be changing them, but that's a more personal thing, I guess. I'm also not overly impressed with the tuners - the do hold well but aren't particularly responsive, so some smoother, higher ratio jobs will come.

The wood itself - I suppose it's whatever pseudo-mahogany most use nowadays for instruments in the price range; the guitar weighs like you'd expect an SG to, so all ok. I don't know how many pieces the body is, nor do I care, I'd argue it's not a thing (doesn't other people into vintage Strats or 50s GT LPs). The fretboard on mine is also quite nice, very similar to rosewood in looks.

Overall, a good guitar which cops the P90 SG thing well, and which could benefit from some more attention to detail in certain areas. It would also be good to see more colour options, two seems a bit limited.
 
Investigating my standard today, far as i can tell it's 3 piece. I don't know much about gibson and how they do things, but fender has always used 2 and 3 piece bodies even for the higher end stuff like AVRI and i'm sure the successors to that line. So if it's 3 with a veneer, i'd say cool. Veneer is not going to do anything negative and will make the back look better. I've seen a lot of fenders where mismatched grain on bodies look horrible. In fact i have a strat like that which i;d have preferred to been sandwiched with a single nice veneer. Being a burst with black edged they certainly could have.
I don't like the veneer in the back, personally. They rarely ever even use the same kind of Mahogany for those veneers, so it almost always looks off. Then again, it's the back, so it's not a deal-breaker for me. Those PRS SE's that are all-Mahogany bodies that have really evident mismatched seams visible from the top are such an eyesore.

I agree, my Squier Esquire is multipiece and really mismatched. It looks ugly. But CV's also cost less than Epis. Personally, I just overall prefer solid finished on low to mid-priced guitars. Less of a gamble. I'm not saying yours isn't nice, but 9 out of 10 sub 1K guitars with "Flamed" or "Quilted" Maple veneers look super underwhelming in person. I'd rather have a solid finish than a washed, shallow-looking, poorly figured veneer, personally.

The thing is I remember reading or hearing Epiphone use any kind of random Mahogany-lookalike based on availability and cost. No biggie. I mean, if it sounds good, it sounds good. But that also means they vary A LOT from batch to batch, so my "you occasionally find the magic one" theory still holds.

To back this up, that is basically what this disclaimer on their site means:
Disclaimer: In order to continually improve the design, quality and performance of our products and instruments and to make use of the best materials at all times, Epiphone reserves the right to change specifications without notice.

BTW, I'm not trying to imply you or anyone else shouldn't enjoy Epiphone. I'm sure there are nice ones out there. I'm just saying for myself, I gave them a second chance, and they disappointed me. I'd rather buy an LTD EC if I were looking for a mid-priced Les Paul lookalike, personally.

Even if the headstock on these new Hammetts looks nice, I'd rather a couple hundred dollars to the price and get a LP Studio, personally.
 
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I like the first-gen Epi Les Paul headstock best (narrow open-book).

This was my 1990 model after I loaded it with a newer set of Probuckers to sell it:

ermlf7ozmp9uv2du9g0j.jpg
 
I like the first-gen Epi Les Paul headstock best (narrow open-book).

This was my 1990 model after I loaded it with a newer set of Probuckers to sell it:

ermlf7ozmp9uv2du9g0j.jpg
Yeah, that looks cool! Is that Japanese?

I liked the Epi Elitist headstock as well.

epiphone-elitist-les-paul-custom-red-full-2-jpg.158622.jpg
 
^ Those look too long to me.
Depends on the context too. Gibson headstocks are long, especially the Les Paul Custom ones, the thing is you usually see them in frontal shots, and they're more angled back than pretty much any other brand, so they "seem" shorter on the pics.

I think they look good on the Custom-style Les Pauls. But yeah, they might look odd on the Standard-styles.
 
epiphone-elitist-lp-std-burst-2004-cons-full-front.jpg

I take that back. It looks fine to me?

I prefer those way better than the current "Kalamazoo" ones. The Kalamazoo ones on the Standards kinda remind me of those old 70's boat paddle ones that look so huge and give the whole guitar a deformed vibe.

JMO, of course.
 
I take that back. It looks fine to me?

I prefer those way better than the current "Kalamazoo" ones. The Kalamazoo ones on the Standards kinda remind me of those old 70's boat paddle ones that look so huge and give the whole guitar a deformed vibe.

JMO, of course.

I think the new tuners are a big improvement. They look more modern and sleek, and complement the overall aesthetic of the guitar much better. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!​
 
I think the new tuners are a big improvement. They look more modern and sleek, and complement the overall aesthetic of the guitar much better. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!​
Which new tuners do you mean, man? Grovers?
 
Well, do you want a guitar that sounds and plays good, or one that looks good, or one that's cheaper (less expensive) than the others? You CAN have one that plays, feels, sounds, and looks terrific but it's gonna cost a bit. (My guitars fit all of those categories but will cost anywhere from $2500 - 6500, depending on what options you choose).

By the way, the number of pieces of wood in the body will not affect tone as much as the type of wood on that thin fretboard. But even that has very little affect on the total tone of a guitar. A multi piece body DOES, however, look horrible if you have a transparent finish.
 
Well, do you want a guitar that sounds and plays good, or one that looks good, or one that's cheaper (less expensive) than the others? You CAN have one that plays, feels, sounds, and looks terrific but it's gonna cost a bit. (My guitars fit all of those categories but will cost anywhere from $2500 - 6500, depending on what options you choose).

By the way, the number of pieces of wood in the body will not affect tone as much as the type of wood on that thin fretboard. But even that has very little affect on the total tone of a guitar. A multi piece body DOES, however, look horrible if you have a transparent finish.
I don't think Epis sound bad or look bad. They just don't sound or look like Gibsons, really. At leas not the Les Pauls. And that's kinda the thing. You pay extra for them being the official licensed Gibson copy, but in reality, they're not any closer than the average cheapie Asian copy. Just because they say "Les Paul" on the headstock, really, doesn't mean the body proportions, headstock shape, headstock angle, etc. aren't all "wrong" like a Harley Benton, an Agile, a Vintage, or whatever would be.

Personally, my findings is not that Epis are finished or are constructed bad. It's generally their fretwork (and fret material) is abysmal that brings them down. That, and the bridges they use are junk.
 
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I don't think Epis sound bad or look bad. They just don't sound or look like Gibsons, really. At leas not the Les Pauls. And that's kinda the thing. You pay extra for them being the official licensed Gibson copy, but in reality, they're not any closer than the average cheapie Asian copy. Just because they say "Les Paul" on the headstock, really, doesn't mean the body proportions, headstock shape, headstock angle, etc. aren't all "wrong" like a Harley Benton, an Agile, a Vintage, or whatever would be.

Personally, my findings is not that Epis are finished or are constructed bad. It's generally their fretwork (and fret material) is abysmal that brings them down. That, and the bridges they use are junk.

I have 2. Both sound like gibsons, one sounds better then the gibson i had before it and plays better. This is the internet so far as u know i'm some kid with little experience but truth is i've been playing since the early 70s ad in bands since 80', and i'm plenty old as u can imagine and have the experience to go with my age. So i assure you my P90 special is easily better then my former gibson special TO ME. But ore then that there is a legion of players who discovered these and are equally blown away. Even andertons did a epi vs gibson comparison on this model and seemed to prefer the epi. It's my #1 and has been sine i got it 3.5 years ago. It's total perfection. I can honestly say, CS aside, as good or better then any gibson i've owned. Frets by the way were perfect. Then i got my 50s standard a few weeks back and while i posted to ask about pickup replacements i figured out i simply had a very low value put (428k) that was loading the pickup to the point they were horrible. I still would prefer a different neck pickup but it's perfectly usable. Frets were perfect but for one slightly high one and tho i leveled them i didn't need to because unless the action was crazy low it had no negative effects. But i do like a very low action so i did level them. Now the acrion is the lowest i can recal ever having achieved without some degree of buzz. The guitar's tone and payability is in no way inferior generally to gibsons i've owned.

Maybe i got lucky but 2 for 2 is a lot odds better then what you suggested. I'm not going to say epis are better then gibsons, but some of them ARE better then a lot of them. But to put out blanket statement like "epiphones just don't look or sound like gibsons" is IMO a a extremely misinformed statement. Maybe pre 2020, but certainly doesn't apply to the IBG line.
 
Maybe i got lucky but 2 for 2 is a lot odds better then what you suggested. I'm not going to say epis are better then gibsons, but some of them ARE better then a lot of them. But to put out blanket statement like "epiphones just don't look or sound like gibsons" is IMO a a extremely misinformed statement. Maybe pre 2020, but certainly doesn't apply to the IBG line.
Yeah, well. I might have overgeneralized. But I meant the Les Paul humbucker types, not the Specials/Juniors.

But I still stand firm by my statement that they don't sound like Gibsons, personally (remember, I'm talking about the Standard/Custom types). They don't use the same wood type, the pickup placement (the bridge in particular) is not the same, the bridge material is not the same, and that's if you count out some other more cork-sniffer factors like the poly finish, the type of glue, the headstock and neck angle, etc. There is no physical way they could.

Like I said, maybe I overgeneralized, but my intention is not to say Epiphones are bad. It's that they're NOT Gibson substitutes, IME. They're not bad. They're great. It's just that they market them as "Gibson, just cheaper", when they're not, and that's what they're not great at.

Again, keep in mind I'm comparing, specifically, the Epi LP Standard to the Gibson LP Standard. The Epi LP Custom to the Gibson LP Custom. Pertaining this thread, the Epi Greenu vs. the Gibson Greeny. At least not if you're comparing current Gibsons to current Epiphones.

I don't mean to disregard your experience. I don't doubt you have good judgement of what a good guitar is. It's just that my appreciation of Epiphone is that: They're not Gibsons just cheaper.
 
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Yeah, well. I might have overgeneralized. But I meant the Les Paul humbucker types, not the Specials/Juniors.

But I still stand firm by my statement that they don't sound like Gibsons, personally (remember, I'm talking about the Standard/Custom types). They don't use the same wood type, the pickup placement (the bridge in particular) is not the same, the bridge material is not the same, and that's if you count out some other more cork-sniffer factors like the poly finish, the type of glue, the headstock and neck angle, etc. There is no physical way they could.

Like I said, maybe I overgeneralized, but my intention is not to say Epiphones are bad. It's that they're NOT Gibson substitutes, IME. They're not bad. They're great. It's just that they market them as "Gibson, just cheaper", when they're not, and that's what they're not great at.

Again, keep in mind I'm comparing, specifically, the Epi LP Standard to the Gibson LP Standard. The Epi LP Custom to the Gibson LP Custom. Pertaining this thread, the Epi Greenu vs. the Gibson Greeny. At least not if you're comparing current Gibsons to current Epiphones.

I don't mean to disregard your experience. I don't doubt you have good judgement of what a good guitar is. It's just that my appreciation of Epiphone is that: They're not Gibsons just cheaper.

Well, i can't really say for sure how my standard compares since i haven;t had a standard or custom for many many years. But i DID have a LP that was a studio or the like about 20 years ago and theres no comparison between that and my epi standard. It's much better. I couldn't sell that gibson fast enough. Played ok at best but sounded utterly crappy. And things like 2 instead of 2 piece body with a thin veneer on back have no effect one tone. I think you're letting the headstock "logo" side of your brain put way too much stock in this. I'm not talking here about that kinda stuff, i'm talking tone and playabity. If cosmetics are the reason to own a LP then you're right, epis lose. To me it's what happens onstage that matter ad the rest is all fluff. If theres one thing i have learned fro many years of owning modding etc it's that when the design is the same and the hardware is good sight variance in tone quality due to the particular piece of wood can make a gibson sound lie crap and a epi like heaven or visa versa. There are a ton of tiny thing also that can make a difference. EX: i found my volume pot was 428k and putting one that measures 50k more was lie a different guitar. There are lousy gibsons and epis and sometimes u just have to see if theres a reason like that and rectify it. I found a couple simple things that made a huge difference. Had i not done that i'd be feeling the same as you. But when the design is right and the wood is good theres always going to be some simple free or relatively cheap way to make it hand with the far more expensive version. Its basic physics. By the way, they both use the same wood type aside from the board which IMO if anything may be better then rosewood, ad this coming from someone who has always hated wood alternatives including fingerboards. But my special is laurel and sonically it just out and out slayed my former gibson special ad in ways i thing are the east subjective like sustain fullness, great dynamics, etc. I have come to feel laurel may be better then RW. But the rest s the same, mahogany and maple.
 
And things like 2 instead of 2 piece body with a thin veneer on back have no effect one tone. I think you're letting the headstock "logo" side of your brain put way too much stock in this.... But the rest s the same, mahogany and maple.
That's part of what I'm arguing. They are not the same Mahogany and Maple.

I agree, I could care less about multipiece bodies (as long as I don't look at the mismatched multiple pieces visually) and the veneer (as long as it is not poorly figured like most on mid-priced guitars, not just Epiphone). But the thing is the Mahogany and the Maple is not the same on both Epi and Gibson. They source them from different places. They are not even the same species of tree.

I may be miscomunicating what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying Gibsons are better than Epiphones. I'm saying that Epiphones are not just Gibsons but cheaper. If they were marketed as "Gibson-esque, just their own thing", that would be more accurate. But of course, they wouldn't sell as many as they do if they took that approach.

Again, I'm talking about specifically, for example, the current Gibson USA LP Standard vs. the current Epiphone Les Paul Standard. I'm not saying your Les Paul Standard is bad or that it is a "worse" guitar than a Gibson. It would be stupid of me to tell you that you shouldn't like it if you do. I'm saying that it is not a Gibson and it will not sound the same even if you put the same pickups in it and put comparable hardware on both. Will it sound "better"? Maybe. But it will not sound the same since they're not made of the same wood and the bridge pickup is in a different position altogether (few mm's further away from the bridge on an Epi). That is what will (IME) have the biggest impact on why they don't sound the same.
 
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