Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

L

Lucky Thorn

New member
Hey, all... I have a first year Lonestar Strat with a Pearly Gates in the Bridge position. I replaced the pickup due to low resistance readings (and other reasons) and have this symptom: Pickup sounds good in the 1st position; in the second positions which is split pickup mode, it is extremely thin and brittle sounding. (the one I replaced was too) I'm thinking of replacing the pot with a 500k, but don't really want to darken all the other settings. (1st position has it's own pot; 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th all use the second pot. Any ideas to fix the second position without garfing up 3 thru 5 tone? I suppose I could just put in a 4 way switch, or ignore the #2 position, but there has to be a better way, doesn't there?
BTW, I replaced all the pots, caps and wiring. Identical sound as before.

Thanks,
Lucky
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

welcome to the forum!

assuming you have 250k pots in there now, putting 500k in will make things brighter. it sounds like your #2 position is out of phase. flip the hot and ground leads on the bridge pup. is this a duncan model? if so switch the black and green. a paf type humbucker (pearly gates + in the stock lonestar) is pretty thin on its own and might contribute to a thin pos 2 tone with the middle pup.

if the 1st tone control works on both neck and middle pups and the 2nd on the bridge the bridge/middle selection would most likely have both tone controls active. is there a diagram you followed for this?
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

Use a 4k7 resistor to ground the Pearly instead of direct to ground. This will partially split the Pearly and make for a thicker combined tone.
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

jeremy said:
welcome to the forum!

assuming you have 250k pots in there now, putting 500k in will make things brighter. it sounds like your #2 position is out of phase. flip the hot and ground leads on the bridge pup. is this a duncan model? if so switch the black and green. a paf type humbucker (pearly gates + in the stock lonestar) is pretty thin on its own and might contribute to a thin pos 2 tone with the middle pup.

if the 1st tone control works on both neck and middle pups and the 2nd on the bridge the bridge/middle selection would most likely have both tone controls active. is there a diagram you followed for this?
Click to expand...

Thanks Jeremy! This IS a Pearly Gates bridge pickup. I now have the green (ground) and the bare wire grounded to the vol pot. So- you're saying ground the black with the bare wire and run the green to the switch?
I used the Fender factory diagram. (0107900/0107902 diagram)
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

Fender pickups are out of phase with most Duncan pickups, including the Pearly Gates. The Pearly Gates Plus is also out of phase with a standard Pearly Gates, from what I understand.
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

Hey, Clint... I like this idea as well. I didn't know this was an option. Guna try this and Jeremys' suggestion; perhaps together... I'll let y'all know.

Thanks again!
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

Instead of 4.7k, I recommend using a pot to determine the value that works best for you. Find the position and then measure the resistance with the pot out of circuit.

...and yes, you will need to reverse the black and green, keeping the bare connected to ground. Alternately, you can reverse the wires of the other pickups instead.

If you do reverse the black and green, you will want to continue to (partially) shunt the screw coil by taking the red/white wires to the green wire instead of to ground.
 
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Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

gregory said:
Fender pickups are out of phase with most Duncan pickups, including the Pearly Gates. The Pearly Gates Plus is also out of phase with a standard Pearly Gates, from what I understand.
Click to expand...

Hey Gregory... Thanks for that! I understand that there are ramifications for making assumptions, but I did wire this from the Fender diagram, and the PGs was a Fender factory installation...along with the Texas Special singles. But am going to try any and all remedies suggested....
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

Yes and the Pearly Gates that came with your Fender is internally wired out of phase from Duncan convention, from everything that I've seen.
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

gregory said:
Yes and the Pearly Gates that came with your Fender is internally wired out of phase from Duncan convention, from everything that I've seen.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, since what he's describing definitely sounds like a reverse-polarity situation.

Lucky: Do you own a small meter? If so, connect the black lead to green, and red to the black lead of the pup. Set the meter on it's lowest DC volts setting. Now bring a screwdriver up against one coil, then yank it away. You should get a positive reading in one direction, and a negative in the other. Do the same for one of the singles, and see if they coincide.
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

The next question is whether the black/white pair still correspond to the slug coil.
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

500k pots sound awful for single coils. They are perfect with 250k pots. 500k and 300k pots are nice for humbuckers. So HSS setup is tricky.
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

I have complete pickguard with pups from a very early version of the Lone Star Strat. And Gregory is right, the Pearly Gates Plus is internally reversed to the Duncan specs and ready to work with Fender pups.
Lucky Thorn, could you please confirm for me: The old version of the Lone Star strat pickguard doesn't carry Fender designations like recent ones. The Texas Specials Singles Coil pups do not carry the nowadays silver Fender CS labels. Thanks.
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

esandes said:
500k pots sound awful for single coils. They are perfect with 250k pots. 500k and 300k pots are nice for humbuckers. So HSS setup is tricky.
Click to expand...

Not really. 250k pots all around and no tone on the humbuckers and all the pickups see the "correct" electrical values.
 
Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

Some humbuckers sound better with 250k pots, but it's a matter of personal preference.

The JB (how Seymour uses it) and the Screamin' Demon do quite well with 250k. The Pearly Gates Plus does also. The standard Pearly Gates Bridge model can too.

The SSL-5/-6 as well as many hotter-than-vintage singles can work better with 500k pots, depending on what you like.
 
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Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

Chistopher said:
Not really. 250k pots all around and no tone on the humbuckers and all the pickups see the "correct" electrical values.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. Have you personally tried it? If not dont speculate.

He was talking about using higher resistance pots.
 
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Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

I've tried it and I agree with Christopher. I'd do 500k no-load or 1M for a bridge-only tone control and 250k volume; or, if the pickup truly warrants 500k pots, I'd use a 500k volume and shunt it with a resistor using a 5-way Super Switch, where needed.
 
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Re: Old guy alert!! First post... be kind, LOL !!

Thanks, Artie....
I guess it's possible that F ordered a reverse polarity pickup and didn't feel they had to mention it to anyone... I do have a couple of autoranging meters... not sure if I'm getting anywhere with one... all the coils read "-" when the (I'm using a small machinists rule) metal is applied. and when I pull the rule off, the "minus" disappears for a second. Not sure what you mean by "one direction and then the other"... I do not have the pickup 'unwired' yet... is that a prerequisite ?

BTW, protruding uneven pole pieces on the singles make more trouble, LOL...
 
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