Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

[Axewall]

I'm looking for a pickup produced today that sounds like the old MMK 45-pickup used in various japanese guitars produced by Matsumoku in the 80's. In the "Aria Pro" line the pickup was named Protomatic V, in the Westone line it was called Super Magnaflux. The MMK 45 is sometimes described as a lower-output version of DiMarzio's Super Distortion, but I don't know... the DM SD seems to have too much low end compared to the MMK 45. Have anyone tried/compared both pickups?

I've got two MMK 45's (both got standard slug/screw coils) out of a 1981 Vantage VP795 (SG-type, maple/walnut body, maple neck, rw fb). IMHO they are not the best pickups for that guitar, it needs a pickup more like a fat PAF at the bridge. But in the bridge position of my mahogany maple-top Hamer Archtop SAT 1995 (kind of a "Sunburst") it's VERY good, the Hamer has got the bottom end to balance the mids of the MMK 45. Very "clear" sounding, excellent with distortion both as full HB and split, even works good with clean sound.

Anyway, at a German Matsumoku forum a tech-geek had put a lot of data from the MMK 45/Protomatic V, such as inductance and dc-resistance, into a special computer program and had a simulation of it's frequency response made. He compared it in the same way with several Seymour Duncan pickups, and it seemed that the MMK 45 was VERY close to Seymour Duncan Distortion SH-6 NECK. Link to the german board here

The MMK 45 specs are:
Inductance 6.16H, DC resistance 11.8 kOhm, resonant peak 9.3 kHz.

What do you guys think? Anyone tried a SH-6n in the bridge position?

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

I'm a Matsumoku fan, but those MMK45s are NOT the best p'ups ever like many would like to think.

In my Vantage 400 I've had the best results using either '59n/C8 or GFS Mean 90 set.

HTH,

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

I've got a pair from a Vantage FV575 Flying V. While not bad, they're not really all that great, especially compared to Duncans.

However, they're very tweakable with the 2 rows of allen screws. Unfortunately, to get them to sound their best (for me) I had the poles way high and the actual body down low (because the screws were so high - maybe 1/3rd of the way out).

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

As I was reading your pat I got to thinking...Dist. Neck. The dist neck model was originally the Seymourizer two and was considered a bridge pup. Zhangliquin and a few other guys were proponents of th Dist neck with another mag used in the bridge. Although I'm curious, I've never tried it before.

Luke

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

Those bobbins are quite a bit taller. The coils are very small and underwound looking from the side. I rewound one with 42 and was able to get 11k on there easily. Coil geometry plays a big role in that pickup. The SH-5 should put you in the ballpark as well, but the Distortion neck is probably the better candidate. You can order one without the logo, or with the logo on the screws side so that it looks right in the bridge position.

The Super Distortion reference is not too far off the mark, a Super 2 would take you too far in the screeching top/no bottom end direction, but again you're up against the coil geometry, which has to be considered. If you want that pickup, you'll have to search ebay for them.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

The old Gotoh Distortion pickups with two rows of hex heads might be pretty close. They were used on a lot of the upper tier imports.

 

[Axewall]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

As I was reading your pat I got to thinking...Dist. Neck. The dist neck model was originally the Seymourizer two and was considered a bridge pup. Zhangliquin and a few other guys were proponents of th Dist neck with another mag used in the bridge. Although I'm curious, I've never tried it before.

Luke

Interesting!

 

[Axewall]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

Those bobbins are quite a bit taller. The coils are very small and underwound looking from the side. I rewound one with 42 and was able to get 11k on there easily. Coil geometry plays a big role in that pickup. The SH-5 should put you in the ballpark as well, but the Distortion neck is probably the better candidate. You can order one without the logo, or with the logo on the screws side so that it looks right in the bridge position.

The Super Distortion reference is not too far off the mark, a Super 2 would take you too far in the screeching top/no bottom end direction, but again you're up against the coil geometry, which has to be considered. If you want that pickup, you'll have to search ebay for them.

I'm not sure what pickup bobbins you mean, MMK 45's?

SH-5 I like in my SG Faded and it's the best I've tried there, better than with A5, SH-14 Custom 5. Tried the SH-5 in the Hamer but it was not as good as MMK 45 in that guitar.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

Hey frank can you give me a history lesson on the dist neck? I know it was the Seymourizer 2 once upon a time. What was the reason forchanging the classification? Also I am curious how in the world it doesn't sound like a cheap import pup using a ceramic mag with, what I assume to be, 44awg wire. I'm trying to figure out where this pup sits in the grand scheme of things.

Thanks!

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

Hey frank can you give me a history lesson on the dist neck? I know it was the Seymourizer 2 once upon a time. What was the reason forchanging the classification? Also I am curious how in the world it doesn't sound like a cheap import pup using a ceramic mag with, what I assume to be, 44awg wire. I'm trying to figure out where this pup sits in the grand scheme of things.

Thanks!

Bump for Frank Falbo.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

The Distortion neck is not 44, that's all I'll say about that. As for not sounding like a cheap import, maybe it's because we know how to wind a coil, eh? Kidding aside its really a combination of everything. It is a pretty underrated neck pickup. As for the name change, wait until Evan gets back from Germany, he remembers more because he was here. But I think it was always suggested as a neck pickup, and just got called the Distortion neck. No wild stories around it, just an attempt to make more sense in catalogs and price lists I think.

 

[DonP]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

The MMK 45 specs are:
Inductance 6.16H, DC resistance 11.8 kOhm, resonant peak 9.3 kHz.

I love these pickups. I stocked up on them in the 80s. With the tall bobbins and around 11.5K wind, they were the Screamin Demon before the Demon. This pickup helped me nail Lynch tones in the 80s and 90s.

If you all recall, George Lynch almost signed with Aria for a sig model.

There are different models. The ones with slugs and screws are not the same as the ones with allen poles.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

The Distortion neck is not 44, that's all I'll say about that. As for not sounding like a cheap import, maybe it's because we know how to wind a coil, eh? Kidding aside its really a combination of everything. It is a pretty underrated neck pickup. As for the name change, wait until Evan gets back from Germany, he remembers more because he was here. But I think it was always suggested as a neck pickup, and just got called the Distortion neck. No wild stories around it, just an attempt to make more sense in catalogs and price lists I think.

Fascinating. I'm curious what one would sound like in a bridge slot of a PRS, maybe even a strat or LP.

Luke

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

They're pretty good in the bridge. I replaced the Ceramic with Alnico 5 and that's a pretty good bridge pickup, too. You have to order one with a reverse logo or without logo. - sorry everyone for off topic.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

They're pretty good in the bridge. I replaced the Ceramic with Alnico 5 and that's a pretty good bridge pickup, too. You have to order one with a reverse logo or without logo. - sorry everyone for off topic.

If you're still talking 'bout the MMK45 here, I've put an A8 for the bridge position for a Metalhead customer of mine and he was the happiest camper ever! I've tried A5 for the neck position, but the ceramic sounded clearer.

If you're talking 'bout the Distortion neck p'up, no hands-on experience from me.

 

[Axewall]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

I love these pickups. I stocked up on them in the 80s. With the tall bobbins and around 11.5K wind, they were the Screamin Demon before the Demon. This pickup helped me nail Lynch tones in the 80s and 90s.

If you all recall, George Lynch almost signed with Aria for a sig model.

There are different models. The ones with slugs and screws are not the same as the ones with allen poles.

The neck one is about 11.3k and got hot (white), coil-tap (red) and screen, the bridge 11.8k got white and green (series), red (coil-tap) and screen.

DonP, are you referring to the allen ones?
What is the difference between the ones with slugs/screws and the ones with allens?

 

[Axewall]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

I love these pickups. I stocked up on them in the 80s. With the tall bobbins and around 11.5K wind, they were the Screamin Demon before the Demon. This pickup helped me nail Lynch tones in the 80s and 90s.

If you all recall, George Lynch almost signed with Aria for a sig model.

There are different models. The ones with slugs and screws are not the same as the ones with allen poles.

I listened to the Screamin' Demon sound clips, and yeah there's a MMK 45 sound to it.

 

[DonP]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

Sorry a little late on the follow up.

I just installed the MMK45 in an alder body DK2 just to try something different than the HB102B, and it had gold poles (to answer Axewall's question a year and a half late). It goes with the gold hardware on my Purple DK2.

The pickup coils measure about 5.78K each. With mine, I have a black and red for one coil, an orange and brown for the other coil, and a ground. I took a guess at the wiring and went red hot, black + orange, then brown to ground.

Wow, talk about bright! Very clear and clean. But no balls at all. It's actually very different from the Screamin Demon in my "similar" alder body Aria Pro II. The SD has growl and balls, the MMK45 sounds like it would be a great clean bright neck pickup, but just not enough meat for the bridge IMO.

All of my talk above about the MMK45 was incorrect. I was actually using an MMK53. This pickup (from my memory before I replaced it with the SD in the Aria) was a great pickup with more balls than the MMK45.

BTW, both of these (45 and 53) are "wide spaced" - not as wide as trem spaced Duncans, but wider than regular spaced Duncans.

edit: Ok, I played it some more for before pulling it. Maybe it does have some balls but damn that high end makes me laugh at anyone who complains the JB is too bright.

The MMK53 I have measures 11K, so maybe a 500 ohms less than the MMK45. I'm pretty sure the 53 has a ceramic magnet.

I've swapped in an Invader but didn't get to string it up yet.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

S

Wow, talk about bright! Very clear and clean. But no balls at all. It's actually very different from the Screamin Demon in my "similar" alder body Aria Pro II. The SD has growl and balls, the MMK45 sounds like it would be a great clean bright neck pickup, but just not enough meat for the bridge IMO.

Now close your eyes and try to imagine the MMKL45 in a solid heavy Maple Aria guitar I got. Brightest thing I think I've ever heard. Yanked the pickup immediately. I am only keeping it in a drawer cause its original for that guitar.

 

[thorny64]

Re: Old Matsumoku MMK 45, Seymour Duncan equivalent?

Wow, I am really late to this thread. But it came up in a search so I am just now seeing it for the first time.

Those MMKs are great pickups. One drawback to these MMK pickups is they frequently get microphonic with their age because they weren't potted back then. If so, you should pot them. A slight benefit is that after you pot them, it takes off a little bit of the "top end" of the pickup to help with that over-brightness factor. But they are good pickups, and you should sell them on ebay or something if you pull them because there are guys restoring Arias, Electras, Westones, and Venture guitars (and other Matsumoku made guitars). So while they typically don't bring the value of a used duncan, there are 1000s of these guitars out there with the pickups yanked out of them, and a few people are trying to put them back to stock. Yeah, many probably have duncans in them (probably sounds great too). I certainly would not throw MMKs away or put them in a box someplace and let them rot.

I have an electra/westone (transition model) X189, and it has two of these in it and the single coil version in the middle. It is the b@st@rd child of a strat and an SG - and probably hit every branch of the ugly tree as it fell out of it. But it is probably one of the most versatile guitars ever made. And Electra did that Hum, single, hum config with a floating bridge and a grahite nut way before Ibanez did their JEM and RG series Hum, Single, Hum configurations. Yup, I did have to pot the pickups. It squealed like a pig! Now sounds great. You can do everything from a LP, Strat, Tele, even do the Peter Green kinda thing, all in one guitar! The only thing you can't do is the middle single coil by itself (strat middle position). Electra used it throughout they "pointy" era matsumokus and into the Westone models. The only thing else I did to the guitar was to put locking keys on it (didn't have those back then, not for many years later). Whoever suggested the A8 in the bridge on an MMK - it sounds very intriguing. I bet it KILLS.