Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

[Evan Skopp]

I remember some years back, talking with Dimebag about tone and he started asking me about Slash and his pickups. I told Dime I'd be happy to send him an APH-1 set, but I didn't think he'd like them.

Totally coincidently, a few weeks later, I was talking with Slash and he asked me about Dimebag. I sent Slash an SH-13, but told him he probably wouldn't like it.

I followed up with both guys and I was right. They just didn't like the other guy's pickups. Of course, a lot of this has to do with the pickup's output and the rig they were playing through: in Dime's case, it was his solid state Randalls (this was pre-Krank) and in Slash's case, it was his valve Marshalls.

Neither was right or wrong in their approach--obviously, since both are very well known for their tone. But they went about getting it in opposite ways.

So my question is this: what output level do you like for your pickups? And how do you get your crunch--from the pickup or the rig?

For me, for the most part, I like lower output pickups and I get my crunch from the amp and pedals. I find that when I want to clean up, I can get a better clean sound from a lower output pickup.

What about you?

 

[Ptolemaeus]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

I like a simple rig. I recently got myself a Peavey XXL, and its all I play through except a delay pedal in the loop. Even though I have a pretty high gain amp, I like to have a higher output pickup in the bridge position of my guitar. In most cases, they just sound clearer under the amount of gain I run than lower output pups. I like a more vintage-y neck position to get those sweet, kinda muddy but still fluid tones.

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

Usually keep the pickups mid to low output, get the amp nice and hot so it starts to break up on it's own but can still play softly so it cleans up, then throw an OCD in front of it at whatever gain level I need it at.

Depending on thr song or music, I'll strike a volume/distortion balance that matches. Usually boost the mids and cut some bass.

The guitar amp is an odd one made locally, no other channels or even a gain knob, just volume. We go old school. Amp is very clean and chunky sounding.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

Older I get the less I like hotter wlpickups.

Low output for buckers. Mid to high 7ks in all 3 of my Gibsons.

...late 60s, early 70s strat outputs...

... I do like a bit of a hot wind in a broad/no/tele caster bridge...9-10k with 43g wire....but weak a3 poles. So they get fat and crunchy but still do not drive that hard.

Let the amps power section do the work.

 

[guitar74]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

I use the amp, or in most cases a pedal or my old ADA MP-1 for the crunch. I am playing through an older Peavey Special 130 most of the time which is solid state, use an old Ibanez PT-5 through the effects loop for delay, verb, chorus, etc. I also use an MXR Dynacomp through the front end set with just enough compression to give a little sparkle when I hit my clean channel, but transparent on my crunch & ultra channels, output is set for unison between on and off. I primarily use the Pearly Gates Plus that came with my Big Apple Strat ('59 in the neck, both of which I LOVE), but do have a JB in two guitars, and a JB Jr. in my Highway One Strat.

Although the JB is much hotter, tonally speaking, at least through my rig, I don't see much diff between the two. Most of my crunch is a combo of amp, and speaker breakup at volume. Gain on Ultra is set at approx 6, gain on crunch at approx 6-7, and I seem to have all the crunch I need even with the modest output of the Gates Plus. And, like you said, with a moderate output pickup you Do get a much better clean tone. I can use the Big Apple for everything and do: Country, Rock, Modern Orchestral, Instrumental Shred, and it does ALL of the aforementioned equally well without having to coil split for clean.

I have also noticed that the lower to moderate output pickups tend to have more definition which is great for lead playing. What's also great about the Gates for me is that it lets me know when I need to woodshed as your technique doesn't get hidden, even under higher gain settings.

 

[chadd]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

I use a Mesa Roadster and Recto series amps shine with moderate and low output pickups. Too much output compresses the sound more than I like. Then again, I don't dial in a stereotypical "mesa tone", I go for a fairly straight ahead rock tone.

 

[El Supremo]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

These days I'm not too concerned about output level, but mainly focus on the way the pickup brings out the guitar and the clarity/articulation. I can always get some help from a pedal to get the desired crunchieness on my JMP 2104.

I do notice that the higher output pickups let you keep the gain on the amp down, resulting in a more articulate sound. The way I set things up with high output buckers, I still can get volume cleanup with the volume around 1 (when any additional boost that might be present is disengaged of course).

 

[LLL]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

Low output always.

I stick to PAF types, and I wouldn't go over 9K.

The tone retains clarity as you add more gain.
Complex chords ring true.
Solos and single string runs/notes are detailed.
The pick attack is heard.
You can go to a good, detailed clean tone when needed.

The amp does the majority of the work (crunch); aided some by a little boost (EQ, preamp). No overdrive or distortion pedals.

Overall, both the amp's and guitar's tonality comes through instead of hiding behind a cloudy wall of mush and fuzzy clipping.

 

[cokekolev]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

I like low output humbuckers for the neck position (A2P, Jazz) and high output humbuckers (JB, Custom) for the bridge. Higher output pickups don't have enough output most of the time to put the amp into overdrive on their own, but they do have a darker tone which is better suited for certain rock & metal styles. I find a PAF-type too bright in the bridge position, but like to get my clean tone from such pickups in the neck position. However, with the right amp the output level shouldn't matter, only the tone of the pickup.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

IMHO for the best result, pickup output must be dialed in "just right". The sweet spot is different for each application (guitar/rig/tone/playing style). Some guitars do what they do best with hotter pickups, while others lose clarity/character/dynamics/woodiness.

A friend of mine had an RG3120 with a pair of Raw Vintage PAFs. The guitar sounded anemic, so out they went and soon found their way into a Korean made Fenix Les Paul. The RG got some Dimarzios and later PRS's that woke it up a bit. The Fenix acquired monster tone.

 

[xxxplorer]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

I like what sounds good to me, and mostly I prefer high output pickups.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nacho8807]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

I prefer a hot pickup like the Distortion. I didn't know how much until very recently, but if I don't have that compression and extra grit, it just doesnt feel right. Even though I have gotten my gain from the amp almost exclusively for a long time. I have used amps like the Triple Rectifier, and 5150 to get a nice heavy distortion with an overdrive in front set to a cleanish boost to tighten things up. Even then I liked the way a hot output pushed it even further. These days I use a Marshall DSL set to a heavy crunch, and after trying a few different kinds of pickups of varying outputs, only the Distortion does it for me.

 

[B2D]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

I've tended to prefer medium-output pickups over the years. Recently I've developed a taste for the hot-PAF thing. I prefer to boost that a little bit with a pedal and then let the volume and gain of the amp do most of the work.

 

[Grenade]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

Well the Fuglys in Brownie < are great, as is the Seth in my lap steel. into my Bassman 70 dimed, Power soak and Marshall1965a. I use a BD-2 for a boost. I'm getting a Tube Works 903 from a member to goose the amp a little more. They clean up nicely just rolling back the vol. knob. I just got a strat and I've gotta say nothing over 8k for me.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

I've had a lot of different pickups over the years, but have gradually found the more vintage winds for each pickup type work better for me.

Sometimes I find a gem that works with certain guitars that isn't low output....a Carvin I bought on the 'bay has a Dimarzio Evolution in that I'm sure was going to go but didn't, and the c/59 and c/jazz hybrids I made also are great.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

Moderately hot bridge and low-output neck. That just seemed right to me. I get my entire distortion through my pedals, though -- two, in fact: a "triple modded" ProCo RAT and a DOD 250, which I sometimes use in unison for an even extended range of gain.

 

[Ptolemaeus]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

I'm seeing two different sides now that people have started commenting.

One: A higher output pickup is better due to the fact that you don't have to crank the gain so much on your amp and therefore retain clarity.

And.


Two: A lower output pup is better because it retains its clarity under gain by not slamming the amp with its own gain.

I'm a believer of the first one due to my experiences with pickups, but what's with this dichotomy?

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

I'm seeing two different sides now that people have started commenting.

One: A higher output pickup is better due to the fact that you don't have to crank the gain so much on your amp and therefore retain clarity.

And.


Two: A lower output pup is better because it retains its clarity under gain by not slamming the amp with its own gain.

I'm a believer of the first one due to my experiences with pickups, but what's with this dichotomy?

It's because the word "clarity" is too vague. It's my biggest pet peeve regarding tonal description. On it's own it says very little. Clarity can mean:
Tone that easily cuts through mixes.
Tone that is dynamic and sensitive to your pick attack.
Tone that has a powerful signal.
Tone that sounds tight and focused under distortion.
Tone that sounds open and airy when clean.
Tone that has good string/note separation/definition.

Name a single product geared towards audio that, if not directly advertised as having great clarity, would ever not be described as having clarity by the person or company who produced it. When does anyone ever NOT want clarity? It's like saying your product is just good, or is of quality, when it is the customers who decide that anyway.

The kinds of clarity mentioned are 2 different ones. High output pickups usually have a focused and powerful tone to them, which would stay focused and powerful through distortion and keep everything responding fast with good note fundamental. Thats one type of clarity. The other where people use a low output pickup would result typically in a less focused, weaker, and looser distortion tone, but will dynamically change the tone when picked lightly or roughly which allows more flexibility. There's another kind of clarity too. Neither are wrong but neither are really helpful in conveying much. Maybe this dude finds the EMG 81 is the clearest pickup he's heard while the dude who worships the Duncan 59 thinks EMGs sound like mud and vice versa. Different applications, different goals assigned that "clarity" caters to.
Sorry, rant over.

 

[HKZSquared]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

I like to get as much gain as possible.
I use ultra high gain amp settings (mostly play on a Roland Cube 30 and Peavey Vypyr 15W... I use my Blackstar HT20 rarely now) with insanely hot bridge pickups. Been loving the Rectifier channel on the Cube with the gain on full while playing through a Gibson SGJ14 with the fairly high output 61 Zebra pickups. I get tons of gain but the notes are really clear for bridge chording and neck soloing.

 

[chadd]

Re: Output Level - How Do You Get Your Crunch?

It's because the word "clarity" is too vague. It's my biggest pet peeve regarding tonal description. On it's own it says very little. Clarity can mean:
Tone that easily cuts through mixes.
Tone that is dynamic and sensitive to your pick attack.
Tone that has a powerful signal.
Tone that sounds tight and focused under distortion.
Tone that sounds open and airy when clean.
Tone that has good string/note separation/definition.

Name a single product geared towards audio that, if not directly advertised as having great clarity, would ever not be described as having clarity by the person or company who produced it. When does anyone ever NOT want clarity? It's like saying your product is just good, or is of quality, when it is the customers who decide that anyway.

The kinds of clarity mentioned are 2 different ones. High output pickups usually have a focused and powerful tone to them, which would stay focused and powerful through distortion and keep everything responding fast with good note fundamental. Thats one type of clarity. The other where people use a low output pickup would result typically in a less focused, weaker, and looser distortion tone, but will dynamically change the tone when picked lightly or roughly which allows more flexibility. There's another kind of clarity too. Neither are wrong but neither are really helpful in conveying much. Maybe this dude finds the EMG 81 is the clearest pickup he's heard while the dude who worships the Duncan 59 thinks EMGs sound like mud and vice versa. Different applications, different goals assigned that "clarity" caters to.
Sorry, rant over.

Great post, put me in the open/airy and string/note separation camp