Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

[barbarianbrute]

i don't particularly like the sound of a lot of gain, but one thing i like is that it seems to make it easier to play. without the gain i feel like i have to dig in more to get the notes to come out sharp and clear, so it's much harder to play fast with little distortion.

when i crank on the distortion, it doesn't sound as classy, but everything is easier to play. i can pick lightly and fast, harmonics squeal effortlessly, and legatto is almost effortless. without the gain, i have to find the sweet spot to get harmonics and i have to pick much more carefully.

i don't know how other people think about this, but to me a lot of amps or pedals sound kind of dry. it's like with distortion there's so much less pick resistance, so playing is more effortless.

what's the deal with that? how do you get a good balance between gain and feel? how do you have great tone, but not have to struggle for it?

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

Use good amps....and practise more without any "help".
Getting good at playing your amp and gear, comes from good control of your guitars.
Using good cables are also a very overlooked aspect!

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

that's funny you say that because i have hte best equipment and i always practice with very little gain - almost clean. i sound better playing with less gain, but it's still a chore compared to how easy it is to play with distortion.

if i were happy just playing moderate stuff or slop like most other people, i wouldn't care, but i want to improve my tone as well as the FEEL.

perhaps you're right about the gear. all my amps have a different feel to them, like guitars do. there's a different response though that i get between playing with little gain vs. playing with a lot.

if i could get a nice overdriven tone and still have that smooth playing feel, then i'd prefer that over a distorted tone.

 

[Loserchief]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

With the right action,pick and strings there should be no effort in playing a guitar be it with gain or without. Legato depends on the right touch not on how much gain you use, same goes for tapping mostly.
certainly gain helps with harmonics but the better your technique gets the lesser gain you'll need to get them to jump out.
I don't like high gain used as aid for playing. I like high gain because it gives me the sound for my playing style.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

Use good amps....and practise more without any "help".
Getting good at playing your amp and gear, comes from good control of your guitars.
Using good cables are also a very overlooked aspect!

Exactly. Technique and mastering that technique has a lot to do with it. I was once in your boat. I felt like I needed the gain to pull off stuff. As I kept playing and progressed as a player, I found I can now get by with less and less. I like a nice responsive overdrive sound. If the "mood" of the song calls for it, then I'll kick up the gain. Some things just sound better with a little more gain on tap.

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

With the right action,pick and strings there should be no effort in playing a guitar be it with gain or without. Legato depends on the right touch not on how much gain you use, same goes for tapping mostly.
certainly gain helps with harmonics but the better your technique gets the lesser gain you'll need to get them to jump out.
I don't like high gain used as aid for playing. I like high gain because it gives me the sound for my playing style.

what if my technique is already pretty good, then what? like i said in my previous post, i don't use a lot of distortion in practice. i'm used to it by now and tend to prefer it. i stay away from high gain, but it is more effortless to play with the extra gain.

i use strict alternate picking, and i'm pretty good with legatto. i have no problems getting harmonics - even clean.

getting back to the point of my post though, playing with distortion is easier than playing without. where is the compromise between both so you can raise your playing to new heights?

 

[ErikH]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

getting back to the point of my post though, playing with distortion is easier than playing without. where is the compromise between both so you can raise your playing to new heights?

Do this. Start out clean, then gradually bring up the drive throughout your routine until you reach that point where your mind says, "that's enough". You'll know when you reach it. It's not a preset thing. You just have to sit and play while bring up the drive a little at a time, like 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3...etc. And this type of tweaking can take weeks depending on what you're after. Make sure you have fresh strings on the guitar too (a couple days to a week old is fine).

And also keep in mind that each guitar will react differently to the setting so finding that happy medium for all of them is something to look at to. I like to keep my settings the same between guitars so I sat and tweaked, and tweaked, until I reached that point where the settings work for all my guitars. And even though they're all Strats, none of them sound like the other.

 

[fab.regnaut]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

One thing I discovered recently is instead of cranking the gain of the preamp , set it to a good crunch then the sound is still round , and puch it before the preamp with overdrive or distortion set at low gain ; the result of two small distortion stage is MUCH more refined that one big distortion stage .

Then you will have a much livelier tone :banana::beerchug:

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

Technique is not always the same as a good touch!
You can be good and still sound terrible....
I do not like alot of distortion very much....hate that lifeless feel...
I want sustain and fat juicy stuff..
Something that can be felt, distortion just mess that up, I want that tactile sensation when playing, well for that stuff I play, we are all different!
Play alot in bands is a major factor in developing a certain touch!

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

maybe that's the thing. i have rough heavy hands, so i'm not like paul gilbert or anything. my fingers aren't that sensetive. when i touch a note it's probably either going to be heavy or light. for a guy with my hands, my build, etc... it's not that easy. i don't have sensetive little skinny fingers.

playing with distortion is cool because i can just touch the string. that lets me get to 180+ bpm with accuracy, but at the same time i lose that good tone. using mild overdrive, moderate playing for me is probably around 140bpm.

one thing i've noticed though is that when i get a little grit on my drive channel and punch it with my overdrive pedal at about 9 o'clock, i get a nice round overdriven sound and still get that liquid feel i get with distortion. i don't know if this is common, but i like the feel of it better than just using an overdrive pedal alone or amp overdrive alone.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

I don't think anyone has brought up the issue of volume. There is a world of difference between playing through an amp at bedroom volume and an amp cranking at stage volume.

Touch becomes paramaount as the volume increases..also the less gain (distortion) is needed to sustain notes.

You can practice your butt off in the bedroom and you won't be prepared for the way an amp reacts at higher volumes.

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

yes, i have noticed the volume thing. driving the amp at pretty loud volumes makes all the feel problems disappear. the problem is that 95% of the time i'm at much lower volumes. at most, i'll crank my amp just enough to be heard with drums. that's loud enough to get the saturation i need, but most of my stuff is done at my little home studio.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

You need a modeller. That's the only way you'll retain most of the feel at lower volumes. I have a Vox AD50VT that I use at home and with my band. The wattage selector is an awesome feature so I can get good tones at low volume and high volume without really affecting much of how I play. People knock 'em, but for your situation, that is honestly the best solution.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

what if my technique is already pretty good, then what? like i said in my previous post, i don't use a lot of distortion in practice. i'm used to it by now and tend to prefer it. i stay away from high gain, but it is more effortless to play with the extra gain.

i use strict alternate picking, and i'm pretty good with legatto. i have no problems getting harmonics - even clean.

getting back to the point of my post though, playing with distortion is easier than playing without. where is the compromise between both so you can raise your playing to new heights?

You've been playing about a year if I remember right? (laugh!) Although I can do it, I don't alternate pick much...sounds to mechanical to me. As far as the strict alternate picking goes, I find that my notes have the most expression, that I can shape the sound of the note more and squeeze it out (whether playing clean, semi-clean or overdriven) when I up pick. Then again, I'm a blues player where a simple phrase of maybe just two notes can get the feeling across as well as a jillion notes. Your point about it being easier to play with distortion than playing clean is well taken...most guys do play with a lot of distortion and for most guys, it is a crutch, IMO...although there are always exceptions. To my way of thinking, a well balanced modern player should be able to play clean or distorted and should WANT to be able to play both clean or distorted. Most guys play humbucking pickups through amps set for saturated distortion...and you're right: it's easier. Corny, but easier. (laugh!) BTW, I've seen videos of Zakk Wylde wailing away on an acoustic guitar playing just as fast and clean as he can on a Les Paul. Very impressive. Lew

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

well it's that balance between feel and tone that i'm after. look at michael schenker or paul gilbert for instance. schenker seems to use a pretty moderate amount of gain generally while gilbert seems to use kind of a lot generally. in either case they both have great tone.

i want a good smooth feel, but i don't want too much gain. personally, although i think they both have awesome sound, i prefer schenker's tone. that's the kind of distortion/overdrive i want (particularly his solo stuff)

 

[ErikH]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

If it's Schenker's tone you're after, sell one of your Strats and get a 24 3/4" mahogany set neck guitar with 2 humbuckers. That's half the equation right there. The other half is Marshall and his touch. He used the JCM800 2205 or 2210's. Seriously, a modeller like the Vox Valvetronix amps will get you close to that tone with the UK 80's model. I've done it, not on purpose, but it happened just by fiddling.

For Gilbert stuff, just toss an overdrive out front and push it just slightly more to get in to his gain territory. Your Strats would work fine with the right humbuckers or humbucker (HSS config). He uses the Tone Zone in the bridge with the Humbucker from Hell in the neck or dual PAF Pro's. Most almost always an Ibanez single-coil in the middle.

I need to also mention this. You have the JVM, and although it is a cool amp and has great tones, it's extremely overkill for playing at home unless you can crank it up, as you have found out. That is why I recommend a modeller. You have a stallion for a pet and want it to act like a lap dog in the house. (crazy analogy, I know, but you get the point).

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

If it's Schenker's tone you're after, sell one of your Strats and get a 24 3/4" mahogany set neck guitar with 2 humbuckers. That's half the equation right there. The other half is Marshall and his touch. He used the JCM800 2205 or 2210's. Seriously, a modeller like the Vox Valvetronix amps will get you close to that tone with the UK 80's model. I've done it, not on purpose, but it happened just by fiddling.

and a wah set at midpoint.

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

actually, i think my laney is getting pretty close now. i heard that he used a mxr dist+. i wonder if that together with my laney will give me something similar.

don't get me wrong though, i don't want to cop his sound. i just like how he gets just enough gain to sound like hard rock or even metal at times, but still have really great tone.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

well it's that balance between feel and tone that i'm after. look at michael schenker or paul gilbert for instance. schenker seems to use a pretty moderate amount of gain generally while gilbert seems to use kind of a lot generally. in either case they both have great tone.

i want a good smooth feel, but i don't want too much gain. personally, although i think they both have awesome sound, i prefer schenker's tone. that's the kind of distortion/overdrive i want (particularly his solo stuff)

Then quit talking about it, Bro, and just do it! (laugh!) You'll know when you've got it right. Lew

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Overdrive/Distortion and "Feel"

:grumble: apparently it's not that easy to get great tone - at least not for me. i obviously don't know what i'm doing or i would have gotten it right by now