Hi guys. I starting to mod my main guitar (a Fender Jaguar Blacktop 90) and I noticed it has a very "cheap" capacitor on the tone pot. I have an orange .047 cap rolling around in my shop, do you think that it's a good idea if I change it? I was sure almost an hour ago, but now I'm looking for a professional opinion on the subject.
P-90 capacitor doubts.
- Thread starter Sovereign
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beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: P-90 capacitor doubts.
The same value capacitor made of different materials will not sound different in a guitar tone circuit. However, what I have observed about the cheapest ceramic discs is that they do not reliably discharge the same - so the value is constantly changing over time, which does change the sound and make things oddly muddy. Just about any better manufactured cap of any material composition, as long as it's the identical value, will sound the same in a guitar tone circuit. (Keep in mind these components have a tolerance, meaning the actual value could be higher or lower by 10%, so you need to measure the caps with a meter to know exactly what the value is to ensure you are replacing one with the same value.)
The same value capacitor made of different materials will not sound different in a guitar tone circuit. However, what I have observed about the cheapest ceramic discs is that they do not reliably discharge the same - so the value is constantly changing over time, which does change the sound and make things oddly muddy. Just about any better manufactured cap of any material composition, as long as it's the identical value, will sound the same in a guitar tone circuit. (Keep in mind these components have a tolerance, meaning the actual value could be higher or lower by 10%, so you need to measure the caps with a meter to know exactly what the value is to ensure you are replacing one with the same value.)
DreX
New member
Re: P-90 capacitor doubts.
A lot of people including myself prefer .022 uF caps for humbuckers, and I'll go farther and say "all hotter, darker pickups", including P-90s, series wired humbuckers and even SSL-4's, because it's not the fact that the pickup is a humbucker that makes it work well with a .022 uF, but the fact that it has a low resonant peak and more amplitude in the mids. A .022 uF seems to attenuate hot/dark pickups perfectly and really brings out the mid growl, where has a .047 will take them down too far and become overly muddy. So, it's not just a good idea, it's a great idea, IMO.
A lot of people including myself prefer .022 uF caps for humbuckers, and I'll go farther and say "all hotter, darker pickups", including P-90s, series wired humbuckers and even SSL-4's, because it's not the fact that the pickup is a humbucker that makes it work well with a .022 uF, but the fact that it has a low resonant peak and more amplitude in the mids. A .022 uF seems to attenuate hot/dark pickups perfectly and really brings out the mid growl, where has a .047 will take them down too far and become overly muddy. So, it's not just a good idea, it's a great idea, IMO.
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: P-90 capacitor doubts.
A few years ago, somebody (possibly Left_Hand_Strat in argument-settling rant mode) posted a link to thread on this topic. The originator of the myth bustin' thread A/B tested a shedload of capacitor types against one another, making objective recordings, before drawing any conclusions.
I shall try to locate the old thread and post a link.
A few years ago, somebody (possibly Left_Hand_Strat in argument-settling rant mode) posted a link to thread on this topic. The originator of the myth bustin' thread A/B tested a shedload of capacitor types against one another, making objective recordings, before drawing any conclusions.
I shall try to locate the old thread and post a link.
Re: P-90 capacitor doubts.
I recently read this article and I actually liked the response of the .047 uF on the sound tests. A "darker" sound it's not a problem to me.
I recently read this article and I actually liked the response of the .047 uF on the sound tests. A "darker" sound it's not a problem to me.
Re: P-90 capacitor doubts.
Remember too, that once the tone control is attached there is a slight 'drag' on the signal.....or more accurately put is that some of the signal is lost to ground even with the tone 'full up'. In this case the cap value becomes more important as there will be filtering you can't get rid of.
Remember too, that once the tone control is attached there is a slight 'drag' on the signal.....or more accurately put is that some of the signal is lost to ground even with the tone 'full up'. In this case the cap value becomes more important as there will be filtering you can't get rid of.
dystrust
New member
Re: P-90 capacitor doubts.
My SG Standard came with .047 caps, and I didn't find the tone control all that usable. Below 6-7 it'd be too muddy to be of much use. This was with humbuckers, so I'd imagine you'd get a little more usable range from P-90s. I've since swapped pickups to a set of Phat Cats with .015/.022 caps wired 50s style, and I find the tone control much more musical and useful.
My SG Standard came with .047 caps, and I didn't find the tone control all that usable. Below 6-7 it'd be too muddy to be of much use. This was with humbuckers, so I'd imagine you'd get a little more usable range from P-90s. I've since swapped pickups to a set of Phat Cats with .015/.022 caps wired 50s style, and I find the tone control much more musical and useful.
DreX
New member
Re: P-90 capacitor doubts.
That's one of those things that's more true on paper IMO. I have a cap dial in some of my guitars and I hear no difference at all when I change cap values at 10 on the tone dial.
That's one of those things that's more true on paper IMO. I have a cap dial in some of my guitars and I hear no difference at all when I change cap values at 10 on the tone dial.
Re: P-90 capacitor doubts.
I (almost) never use a .047uf cap on humbuckers OR P-90s. It removes too many of the mid tone frequencies and you lose all of the snap of the P-90 and it becomes very muddy sounding. 022uf is about as high as I would ever want to use and sometimes I've used .015uf and even .010uf. On single coils (Strat or Tele type, not P-90s) I use either .022uf or .047uf depending on the specific pup and the tonal result I'm seeking.
IMO, as a general rule:
for humbuckers: .022-.015uf,
for P-90s: .022uf,
for singles: .047-.022uf.
I (almost) never use a .047uf cap on humbuckers OR P-90s. It removes too many of the mid tone frequencies and you lose all of the snap of the P-90 and it becomes very muddy sounding. 022uf is about as high as I would ever want to use and sometimes I've used .015uf and even .010uf. On single coils (Strat or Tele type, not P-90s) I use either .022uf or .047uf depending on the specific pup and the tonal result I'm seeking.
IMO, as a general rule:
for humbuckers: .022-.015uf,
for P-90s: .022uf,
for singles: .047-.022uf.
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Re: P-90 capacitor doubts.
The same here my tone leans towards the darker side. I just picked up a .047 orange drop for my new HH build.
The same here my tone leans towards the darker side. I just picked up a .047 orange drop for my new HH build.
Myaccount876
Amira-Maker
Re: P-90 capacitor doubts.
In reality, a capacitor's actual value and tolerance makes a difference (a generally small one though) much more than capacitor type (which I consider to be negligible). If you want to change something about the tone control, change the parts based on their values, tapers, and tolerances. f[SUB]c[/SUB]=1/(2πRC) doesn't change because you used a ceramic disk capacitor instead of an orange drop capacitor. A resistor measuring 17 Kilohms and a capacitor measuring .001 microfarads is always going to have a frequency cutoff of 9360Hz, regardless if the capacitor is paper-in-oil, sprague, orange drop, etc.
In reality, a capacitor's actual value and tolerance makes a difference (a generally small one though) much more than capacitor type (which I consider to be negligible). If you want to change something about the tone control, change the parts based on their values, tapers, and tolerances. f[SUB]c[/SUB]=1/(2πRC) doesn't change because you used a ceramic disk capacitor instead of an orange drop capacitor. A resistor measuring 17 Kilohms and a capacitor measuring .001 microfarads is always going to have a frequency cutoff of 9360Hz, regardless if the capacitor is paper-in-oil, sprague, orange drop, etc.