P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

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StormJH1

New member
I just installed two P-90's in a Squier SE Strat, which, of course is a bolt-on neck and 25.5" scale (rosewood fretboard). See picture below. The pickups are actually Tonerider Rebel 90's, but they are very similar to SD Phat Cats in appearance and (probably) in sound.

Here's my question: The pickups sound great, particularly in the neck and middle positions, but the bridge is a bit bright. Not "unusably" bright, but just a little harsh at times. I assume (but am not 100% sure) that I am running 500k pots (it has one master tone control). The community seems to be split on whether P-90's should use the warmer 250k tone pots normally reserved for single coils, or 500k pots with the tone knob turned back a little. The "500k" camp is of the opinion that the brighter pot gives you access to the dynamics of the pickup, and you don't want to muffle it too much with a 250k.

I will play around with it and see what I like for myself, but I was curious how everyone else sets up their P-90's. Any suggestions on how to get the best out of them? Thanks!

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Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

Start with swapping the tone pot for 250k (same cap value) leaving the volume at 500k. Even with the tone pot wide open, there's still a slight drain of treble. It becomes more obvious that this is the case as the tone cap value is increased. Try a .047uf or even a .1uf tone cap and you'll hear it. I did when I was playing with tone cap values in one of my Strats. If the tone pot is wired 50's style (off the volume output rather than the input) then it may be less obvious.
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

1. Go to V/T/T.

2. Try raising the pickup.

I wouldn't go to 250K with a master volume if you love the way the neck pickup sounds. It's relatively easy to tone down treble; its not so easy to try to squeeze treble from a pickup that doesn't have enough.
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

500k/300k or 500K/500K


But:

All my Bridges are A5/A8 or A8/A8

All Necks are A3/A5 or A3/A3
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

On a mahogany, set neck guitar, I would go with A500k pots.

It might be possible to dial out some of the excess treble from the bridge pickup by adjusting the polepieces. Deep down, I suspect that the real problem is the natural acoustic sound of the guitar itself.

How skinny is the sustain block on the vibrato bridge?
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

Funkfingers said:
On a mahogany, set neck guitar, I would go with A500k pots.

It might be possible to dial out some of the excess treble from the bridge pickup by adjusting the polepieces. Deep down, I suspect that the real problem is the natural acoustic sound of the guitar itself.

How skinny is the sustain block on the vibrato bridge?
Click to expand...

This guitar is not a stock Squier. It has several mods intended to improve performance/fullness, including a steel bridge and full-sized steel trem block from GFS, and a GraphTech nut and bridge saddles. Still, I have no doubt that it tends more towards brightness than a set-neck guitar with a "warmer" type of wood, or thicker body. That's why I asked the question.

Wouldn't lowering pickup tame the treble? Or just lower the output?
 
P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

I've got an lp special copy with two p90s. 250k in vol and tone positions. I like it alot.
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

Since you already run 500k pots, just wire up 500k resistor in parallel from the bridge pu lug on the switch to the ground on the back of the volume pot, so the bridge pu sees 250k while the neck pu still sees 500k. I think 470k resistor is the closest you can get easily.

Or, use 2 volume control (bridge pu 250k, neck pu 500k) and master tone control (500k).You can add another knob between the existing knobs.
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

The steel Trem block will add brightness. You might benefit from a brass block.
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

500s.
oh, and re the bridge, lower the poles and raise the pickup
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

I am running 250Ks across the board in my super strat with the P-Rails and love the tone. Typically I use 500K pots or 1M in the case of my shred guitar w/ Dimebuckers.
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

You could always disconnect the neck pickup from the tone pot, making it bridge only and therefore able to tame any amount of treble from the bridge.
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

Wow, lots of great suggestions here. I admit to being really ignorant about wiring and how to mess with different tone pots and capacitors (which is why I asked, obviously). I've actually never done the thing where you keep the pickups the same and just change the tone pot. I know that people say it can make a big difference and it's pretty inexpensive to do, despite my improving-yet-still-crappy soldering skills.

I should point out that I'm also playing it with .009's right now because some things on the guitar get a little angry with me if I use .010's. But I might go back to .010's and that would thicken it up a little, also.

I'm intrigued by how it would sound with a 250k pot. Maybe I'll think about trying one out. Amateur question: if I switch the tone pot to 250k, the overall tone will still be "warmer" on a 250k vs. a 500k, even if the tone is set to "10" on either one?
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

AlexR said:
You could always disconnect the neck pickup from the tone pot, making it bridge only and therefore able to tame any amount of treble from the bridge.
Click to expand...

+1. Which is what I do with a three knob guitar. Volume for the neck, volume and tone for the bridge.
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

StormJH1 said:
Amateur question: if I switch the tone pot to 250k, the overall tone will still be "warmer" on a 250k vs. a 500k, even if the tone is set to "10" on either one?
Click to expand...

Yes. There is a small effect even on 10. The only way it wouldn't be, other than removing it from the circuit, would be if it was a no-load tone pot. No-load means that when it hits 10, it is removed from the circuit. It's like no tone pot is even there.
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

I just wanted to write back (for anyone who finds this thread on a Google search in 2016) that the suggestion to wire the bridge pickup (only) to the tone control and make that pot a 250k with .047 caps REALLY worked!. I had the wiring screwed up at once, moved one wire over, and now I believe have a neck Rebel 90 going straight to the volume pot, and a bridge Rebel 90 wired to a tone control that really warms it up. It actually nice and full even on 10, but there's a nice treble rolloff if you back off it just a bit.

It probably depends on the guitar, but if you have a 25.5" scale Strat, or any other guitar that leans on the "bright" side, I strongly recommend trying out a 250k pot for bridge P-90's. It actually sounds almost humbucker like now (which is good), but there's that great midrange punch. Great pickups.

Thanks again!
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

StormJH1 said:
It probably depends on the guitar, but if you have a 25.5" scale Strat, or any other guitar that leans on the "bright" side, I strongly recommend trying out a 250k pot for bridge P-90's. It actually sounds almost humbucker like now (which is good), but there's that great midrange punch.
Click to expand...

I think it applies to any guitar. I do the same thing to my bridge P-90's on SG's and LP's. P-90's are single coils and in the bridge slot are pretty bright and thin. If you EQ your amp to get a great tone from the bridge, then the neck is probably going to be too dark. Since I like bright neck PU's, I add a good amount of treble at the amp, and it's easy to warm the bridge with a 250K pot or two, and/or a warmer magnet. I get neck clarity and definition, and still have a bridge that's full and has midrange punch.
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

blueman335 said:
I think it applies to any guitar. I do the same thing to my bridge P-90's on SG's and LP's. P-90's are single coils and in the bridge slot are pretty bright and thin. If you EQ your amp to get a great tone from the bridge, then the neck is probably going to be too dark. Since I like bright neck PU's, I add a good amount of treble at the amp, and it's easy to warm the bridge with a 250K pot or two, and/or a warmer magnet. I get neck clarity and definition, and still have a bridge that's full and has midrange punch.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The Tonerider Rebel 90 is actually an Alnico II magnet, which, as I understand it, is one of the smoother/warmer ones.

r90s_large.JPG

Still, considering that the output is only around 8k on both pickups, there's a remarkable amount of punch there. On guitars with two humbuckers (like a Les Paul), the bridge pickup tends to get the most attention from me. With these P-90's, it's just a "different" sounding guitar than any other one that I own. I can see useable tones at all three position (neck, both, bridge), actually.

The bridge pickup still gets a little gritty, almost like a high-output humbucker (JB) set close to the strings, but I kind of like that. Through a distorted/overdriven amp that emphasizes the higher frequencies (think Vox or Fender), it kind of sounds "vintage with an edge" on the bridge. And the neck pickup on clean tones is like a humbucker in a lot of ways, just more defined. I can see why a lot of players like a humbucker in the bridge and a P-90 in the neck.

While I'm a fan of the Toneriders, the Duncan Phat Cat is supposed to be excellent, so all of my praise would apply equally to that pickup, I'm sure.
 
Re: P-90 Users: 250k or 500k w/ tone control?

Don't know if this will find you but I just bought this guitar at a Musicgoround in MN. It's everything I was looking for. Great neck, P90 pickups, Strat body.
 
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