I Had a guitar custom painted and I was looking for a special pickup for it, and I was really excited about the P-Rail after extensive checking, but I can't believe how noisy the **** thing is. I completely re-wired the whole guitar again taking great care in the grounding, but it's still noisy as heck, no matter which setting of the three. Did I miss something? I used insulating paint inside the cavity, so it's well insulated. Of the three pickups in the guitar, this is the only one that buzzes. You know the sound, if you face one way it's noisy, but if you turn a little, it stops. It sounds nice, and the three tone options are great, but I can't live with this kind of noise level. Is there anyone else trying the P-Rails having the same result?
P-Rails, Am I missing something?
- Thread starter iguanaman
- Start date
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: P-Rails, Am I missing something?
The single coil modes should each be quieter than a "real" strat or P90, and the HB mode should be as hum cancelling as any HB with a slight coil mismatch. There are Dimarzios, Gibsons, Fralin Unbuckers, etc. that have one coil slightly different than the other, and they still cancel hum pretty well. I feel like there's something wrong. One coil could be out of phase, or something not right with the grounding somewhere.
You should expect single coil noise in the single coil modes, so without being there with you I can't tell if the noise you're hearing is normal or what your expectations are. A photo of the cavity could help us.
The single coil modes should each be quieter than a "real" strat or P90, and the HB mode should be as hum cancelling as any HB with a slight coil mismatch. There are Dimarzios, Gibsons, Fralin Unbuckers, etc. that have one coil slightly different than the other, and they still cancel hum pretty well. I feel like there's something wrong. One coil could be out of phase, or something not right with the grounding somewhere.
You should expect single coil noise in the single coil modes, so without being there with you I can't tell if the noise you're hearing is normal or what your expectations are. A photo of the cavity could help us.
Re: P-Rails, Am I missing something?
Are you using it at a high gain level? At high gain my P-rails also seem a little noisier than my other pups... Mine aren't intolerable though. Just a bit noisier than my other humbucker equipped guitars. With mine it seems rolling down the tone a little and making sure I avoid facing the amp seems to help a lot.
By the way Frank- I heard you had a large part in designing the P-rails, and I wanted to let you know they sound awesome!
Are you using it at a high gain level? At high gain my P-rails also seem a little noisier than my other pups... Mine aren't intolerable though. Just a bit noisier than my other humbucker equipped guitars. With mine it seems rolling down the tone a little and making sure I avoid facing the amp seems to help a lot.
By the way Frank- I heard you had a large part in designing the P-rails, and I wanted to let you know they sound awesome!
dr. ad
MonkeyDungologist
Re: P-Rails, Am I missing something?
if you've had it painted, there's a possibility something's happened to your bridge's ground connection and now you and the strings aren't grounded while you're playing it, possibly through noisy leads, pedals etc.
go through a process of elimination on your signal chain outside your guitar, then check continuity on your guitar's ground connections with a multimeter paying particular attention to the pickup baseplates' (guessing here, no idea re p-rails cables) and guitar components' ground connections.
see also guitarnuts.com
good luck
if you've had it painted, there's a possibility something's happened to your bridge's ground connection and now you and the strings aren't grounded while you're playing it, possibly through noisy leads, pedals etc.
go through a process of elimination on your signal chain outside your guitar, then check continuity on your guitar's ground connections with a multimeter paying particular attention to the pickup baseplates' (guessing here, no idea re p-rails cables) and guitar components' ground connections.
see also guitarnuts.com
good luck
Re: P-Rails, Am I missing something?
I just noticed you said you used insulating paint in the cavity. To shield the guitar and help reduce noise, surely you should be using conductive paint.
Still, insulating paint shouldn't make the noise worse, it just probably won't do anything to reduce it.
If that was just a typo and you are using conductive paint, could that be causing a ground loop? For example, if the casings of two of the pots are connected together by a ground wire, but they are also connected by both being in contact with the conductive paint (or foil on the back of the pickguard,) then that could cause a ground loop which might make hum worse.
I don't know why it would only affect the P-Rails and not the other pickups though.
By the way, someone correct me if I'm talking BS (I'm sure someone would anyway.):bs2:
I just noticed you said you used insulating paint in the cavity. To shield the guitar and help reduce noise, surely you should be using conductive paint.
Still, insulating paint shouldn't make the noise worse, it just probably won't do anything to reduce it.
If that was just a typo and you are using conductive paint, could that be causing a ground loop? For example, if the casings of two of the pots are connected together by a ground wire, but they are also connected by both being in contact with the conductive paint (or foil on the back of the pickguard,) then that could cause a ground loop which might make hum worse.
I don't know why it would only affect the P-Rails and not the other pickups though.
By the way, someone correct me if I'm talking BS (I'm sure someone would anyway.):bs2:
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: P-Rails, Am I missing something?
Do not face the PC monitor, amp, or other electrical devices when playing. You're picking up RF interference which cannot be eliminated.
Do not face the PC monitor, amp, or other electrical devices when playing. You're picking up RF interference which cannot be eliminated.
super rad stuff
Skaforlifeologist
Re: P-Rails, Am I missing something?
the other big culprits of RF interference are flourescent lightbulbs and TVs.
the other big culprits of RF interference are flourescent lightbulbs and TVs.
Robert S.
Super Moderator
Re: P-Rails, Am I missing something?
Hey iguanaman, sorry to hear about your troubles. Unwanted noise in a guitar can be a frustrating thing to deal with but there are some common causes and a few things you can do to find out what the problem is. I have a P-Rails set in a Les Paul and they are as quite as any other humbucker I have tried so it isn't a problem with the type of pickup you are using.
The first thing you need to do is to isolate the problem. You need to figure out whether it is a problem with that particular pickup, a problem in your wiring or a bad component. It would be helpful to know your switching scheme (Fender 5 way blade/Gibson 3 way toggle/PRS type rotary), the type of switch used (steel CTS or plastic import inline) and your volume/tone pot set up. The plastic inline switches often get damaged when you heat them up and that can create the problem you are having.
The first thing I would do is to disconnect the output jack from the circuit and connect the P-Rail directly to the jack wired in normal humbucking mode. If the problem disappears then you know you have an issue in the wiring or components. If the problem doesn't disappear then the pickup either has a bad ground connection in the drain wire or the leads were improperly installed at the factory. This is a rare thing but as with all things human, it does happen. If it does seem to be the pickup then the easiest thing to do assuming the pickup is new is to return it to your place of purchase for a replacement or in the USA you can use Seymour Duncans 21 day return policy. Call the factory for a RA# and they'll tell you what to do from there. Obviously swapping for a replacement at the point of purchase will be quicker.
If the problem does clear up you need to go back and wire the pickup to each component umtil you find the problem. If the guitar is wired to the switch first, connect to the switch and wire the switch to the output jack directly. If the noise returns, replace the switch. Add the next component and so on until you find the source of the noise.
I have worked on 100s of guitars over the years and the main culprits of this kind of issue are wiring mistakes/bad solder joints, plastic inline switches and bad pots in that order. The hardest to diagnose is bad pots because they work fine other than the noise and meter out properly.
Good luck and let us know what you find out!
Hey iguanaman, sorry to hear about your troubles. Unwanted noise in a guitar can be a frustrating thing to deal with but there are some common causes and a few things you can do to find out what the problem is. I have a P-Rails set in a Les Paul and they are as quite as any other humbucker I have tried so it isn't a problem with the type of pickup you are using.
The first thing you need to do is to isolate the problem. You need to figure out whether it is a problem with that particular pickup, a problem in your wiring or a bad component. It would be helpful to know your switching scheme (Fender 5 way blade/Gibson 3 way toggle/PRS type rotary), the type of switch used (steel CTS or plastic import inline) and your volume/tone pot set up. The plastic inline switches often get damaged when you heat them up and that can create the problem you are having.
The first thing I would do is to disconnect the output jack from the circuit and connect the P-Rail directly to the jack wired in normal humbucking mode. If the problem disappears then you know you have an issue in the wiring or components. If the problem doesn't disappear then the pickup either has a bad ground connection in the drain wire or the leads were improperly installed at the factory. This is a rare thing but as with all things human, it does happen. If it does seem to be the pickup then the easiest thing to do assuming the pickup is new is to return it to your place of purchase for a replacement or in the USA you can use Seymour Duncans 21 day return policy. Call the factory for a RA# and they'll tell you what to do from there. Obviously swapping for a replacement at the point of purchase will be quicker.
If the problem does clear up you need to go back and wire the pickup to each component umtil you find the problem. If the guitar is wired to the switch first, connect to the switch and wire the switch to the output jack directly. If the noise returns, replace the switch. Add the next component and so on until you find the source of the noise.
I have worked on 100s of guitars over the years and the main culprits of this kind of issue are wiring mistakes/bad solder joints, plastic inline switches and bad pots in that order. The hardest to diagnose is bad pots because they work fine other than the noise and meter out properly.
Good luck and let us know what you find out!
Re: P-Rails, Am I missing something?
Thanks for all the responses guys, all of the suggestions are helpful. I must have meant cunductive paint, I got it of ebay and it's a copper oxide something or another that's made for guitars. I just put a brand new Ibanes Y-50 5 way switch in it and that didn't make a difference so I can take that off of the list. The only pot is the volume and I tried two different ones with no change. I checked and double checked th grounding and even re-routed a couple of them too, so I'm pretty confident the wiring is intact. The ground to the Lo-Pro trem is as it should be. My amp is 65 watts but I don't push it too hard. I'm pretty sure it's the pup. I'll be pounding away on it pretty good tonight, so I'll see if anything is different after the re-working and new switch.
Thanks for all the responses guys, all of the suggestions are helpful. I must have meant cunductive paint, I got it of ebay and it's a copper oxide something or another that's made for guitars. I just put a brand new Ibanes Y-50 5 way switch in it and that didn't make a difference so I can take that off of the list. The only pot is the volume and I tried two different ones with no change. I checked and double checked th grounding and even re-routed a couple of them too, so I'm pretty confident the wiring is intact. The ground to the Lo-Pro trem is as it should be. My amp is 65 watts but I don't push it too hard. I'm pretty sure it's the pup. I'll be pounding away on it pretty good tonight, so I'll see if anything is different after the re-working and new switch.
