P Rails and the Liberator

[imascorpio1969]

I have a set of P-rails that I'm going to install into a guitar that also has mini DPDT toggle switches (on-off-on) and I'm also thinking about installing a Liberator Pot. I don't see anything on Seymour Duncan's site about how to wire something like that up. I'm not sure if it even makes sense to install the Liberator as it doesn't appear to have switching capabilities like a push-pull pot would. Anybody have any suggestions or thoughts about that or wiring diagram? Thanks.

 

[shadowfire90]

Re: P Rails and the Liberator

Hey Imascorpio1969, welcome to the forum. I'm a scorpio myself.

Notice how on the front contacts of the liberator how the wires are all going places. To make this work with on/off/on mini toggles just send the wires to the mini toggle first before the switch (or pot) and you're set. I'll draw something out shortly as I've got an idea. You can also go with two on/on mini toggles and get 12 sounds instead of 9. The only difference of course is the two mini toggles give you parallel as an added bonus.

Oddly enough I always discredited the liberator as I solder really well but with the wiring in one of my BC Rich guitars this would be really beneficial.

the best place for inspiration with P-rails came from this blog
https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/the-p-rails-wiring-bible-part-3

however to help you out this is the usual 2 types of coilsplit and series (standard humbucker) type wiring you're probably after. I'd use two on/on mini toggles and do the wiring two below. If you need help converting to that let me know.

View attachment 102666

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: P Rails and the Liberator

... You can also go with two on/on mini toggles and get 12 sounds instead of 9...

Is there a typo or mistake in this statement? Because an on/off/on switch yields 3 options and an on/on yields 1 *less* option, so two on/on switches cannot yield more options than two on/off/on switches. If you meant "on/on/on" instead, it still doesn't make the statement about "more" options correct... the only difference between on/off/on and on/on/on would be *which* 3 options are possible to achieve from these two kinds of switches... particularly that on/on/on makes Parallel one of the 3 modes possible where on/off/on cannot. (ref. Part 2 of the Wiring Bible link you noted earlier).

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: P Rails and the Liberator

What he means is, you gang up both pickups to the two on/on switches and you can have all 4 sounds out of each P-Rail. But you can’t do something like bridge HB + Neck P90 or Bridge Series + Neck Parallel. Both pickups would change settings at the same time. It’s still 12 sounds though. 4 neck, 4 bridge, 4 combo.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: P Rails and the Liberator

What he means is, you gang up both pickups to the two on/on switches and you can have all 4 sounds out of each P-Rail. But you can’t do something like bridge HB + Neck P90 or Bridge Series + Neck Parallel. Both pickups would change settings at the same time. It’s still 12 sounds though. 4 neck, 4 bridge, 4 combo.

Ah, thanks Frank. I wasn't getting that from the context he provided.

So like in this diagram, right?

 

[shadowfire90]

Re: P Rails and the Liberator

Frank is right. If anyone knows P-rails it's him. He was the vice president of Seymour Duncan when they were designing these pickups. I really admire he still replies to questions on here.

It took me forever to respond as I had a busy day. However here's some insight.

both representing using two of the same mini toggles
on/off/on - you're focusing on either coil as well as getting the series tone. So 3 , 9 and 3. However the 9 represents a lot of in between sort of sounds you may or may not like.
on/on/on - series / coilsplit / parallel - no secondary coilsplit - same as before 9 combinations
on/on - series / 2 types of coil split / parallel - 12 combinations. 4 + 4 + 4

Adding parallel gives you about 25-30% of the tone of your pickup. It's hum cancelling as one coil filters out the other. A 16k pickup will drop to around 4k for instance. However it takes a lot more than DC resistance to give a pickup its output. Youtube to see if you're a fan of parallel. A lot of guys back when I used to modify guitars when I had time to kill would usually go with it because of it's hum cancellation.

Now the diagram you provided last will work. I have a modified version for standard humbuckers that the coilsplits mirror each other but I'm a big fan of it and even figured out how to do out of phase with it two ways. Back on topic though solder two push pulls or mini toggles (on/on) like you see and you'll have no problems. This approach is the best not only because you get the most sounds but whether you're on stage or rocking out in a studio it's easy to remember what your guitar is doing as you can look down and go oh.. two push push pulls up. I'm in parlalel where as Jimmy Page wiring if you went with 4 push pulls is a big nope.

the most sounds without drilling holes into a les paul out of those P-rails is 24 sounds. the 16 instead of 4 in the center are all in between sounds. Total over kill as it's essentially a triple shot system but some people like it. You'd need 4 push pulls to do it. Just wire each set of lets say push pulls up separately. Focus on only what is above and below contacts wise on the push pulls and you're set. However I do have a diagram or two I can send you as one of my hobbies is graphic design.

good luck on your project