P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Corwin

Corwin

New member
Hey Guys! (& gals?:smoker:) I'm brand spankin' new to the world of Pick-ups & guitar wiring (though I've rocked the guitar for 10 years now). After much research I've decided on a P-Rails Hot for the Bridge & a Little '59 for the neck. The middle pick-up is S.O.L. because all my cash is on the other 2 and the wiring/hot-rodding mods I'm making on my 10 year old Fat Korean Squier Strat (HSS). I Would REALLY Appreciate it if you guys could advise me on some wiring options I can do to get the most outta these Pups!! I shan't go the way of the Triple-shot Mounting Ring as they're not really a good fit with the Strat's. I would however still like to get all of those promised tones out of her (P-Rails Hot) though (Humbucker, P-90, Rail (maybe South & North?). As well as get the most out of the Little '59 in the Neck as it is a 4-wire mini-Humbucker. I don't know what to do with that? Split the coils? My guitar has 1-Volume, 2 Tone knobs/pots and a standard 5-way switch. So I'm right into popin' those baby's out to slip in some push/pulls or toggles or Supre/Mega Switches. The only thing is Im not sure what the optimal way of going about that would be??? This is where I'd appreciate the help!!!:dunno: Oh, And one other thing. I really could care less about the middle Pup, so I'm right into excluding him from the group. What I'd REALLY Like to be able to do is to get some cRazy combinations of the neck and bridge Pups. I'm very eager to get this project going, but I Really need some help!!! So Any help you could provide will be Much Obliged! Thanks!!!
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Come up with some ideas for the combinations you'd like and then we can figure out if they're possible.
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

HI Mr.ParameterMan (Ultimate Tone Slacker)!!! First off, THANK-YOU VERY MUCH for Responding and Offering to Help!!! I Do Genuinely Appreciate it!!! I got your message late last night/this morning (4am) and started writing you back but kept nodding off. Then I started writing you back from work, but the internet went down and stayed down all day. So here I am back at home with some ideas for the combinations I’d like as you requested :). Ok forgive me if this is a bit long, I just wanted it to be as clear as possible.

Little ‘59 (Neck)
Stock Single Coil Pup (Middle)
P-Rails Hot (Bridge)

Neck - Series/Split/Parallel
Middle -(am willing to part with it completely if it helps with the wiring, i.e. if it meant I didn’t have to drill a hole in the guitar- But, I’d use it on blues moons in combination with these new Pup’s if it was there)
Bridge - (P-90, Humbucker, Rail(s?))

As for combinations of those sounds, as I mentioned, I’m chiefly interested in combinations of the Neck and Bridge Pup’s. That being said...

N(Series) + B(P-90)
N(Series) + B(Rail)
N(Series) + B(Humbucker)

N(Split) + B(P-90)
N(Split) + B(Rail)
N(Split) + B(Humbucker)

N(Parallel)+B(P-90)
N(Parallel)+B(Rail)
N(Parallel)+B(Humbucker)

I realize that there are more possible combinations if the Middle Pickup is involved, & I’m up for making use of/making those combinations if it makes sense to do so with the wiring and whatnot.

One question that I have, which may just be a naive nube question, but I’ll ask it nonetheless. Could I wire the guitar’s 5-way selector switch so that the Bridge (P-Rails Hot) is connected to the middle toggle position instead of the bottom usual Bridge Position? & then just wire the Middle Pup to the bottom toggle position where which normally activates the Bridge? The reason I ask, is that I’m wondering if by doing that, I could side step the need for a mini-toggle on/off switch (to turn the bridge or neck Pup on and off) and just simply use the in between toggle position (2) to run the Neck and Bridge Pup’s in combination–then simply use 2 separate on/on/on toggles to get the 3 sounds out of each individual Pup??

Ok, so, just so you know where my head’s at right now, this is my beginner’s level theoretical blueprint for how I could make everything work: (PLEASE- correct/edit/REVISE at will!! :))

The Volume Knob will now transform into a = 250k push/pull pot that will double as a Master Volume/Master Tone

The 1st Tone Knob will be replaced with an On/On/On toggle switch that will control the Little ‘59 (Neck) Pup - Splitting it between (Series/Split/Parallel)
The 2nd Tone Knob will also be replaced with an On/On/On toggle switch that will control the P-Rails Hot (Bridge) Pup - Splitting it between (P-90, Humbucker, Rail)

The 5-Way Selector Switch will be Re-Ordered so that the Bridge Pup will be active/connected to the Middle Toggle Position - while the Middle Single Coil Stock Pup will be active/connected to the 5th position (ie. Where the Bridge Pup is normally connected)

Alright, sorry about writing so much, I just wanted to make sure I got it all in there in one clear & concise message! Thanks A LOT for reading through it all!!! PLEASE Help!!! Thank-You!!!
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Hmm... I think it's all relatively straightforward. A couple questions: have you tried the little '59 split, ie. is that sound different enough from parallel to be worth having? Also, I believe the P-rails has four distinct and usable options - the humbucker sounds cool both in series and parallel. Another toggle could be possibly added to do this.

Yes, you could swap around the bridge and middle on the 5-way, but if you don't want the middle pickup by itself, position #3 can be used as neck + bridge. Well, it can if you get a fancier switch; that might be necessary anyway to get the wiring we want.

Combining one coil of the neck with either coil of the bridge could be tricksome. One of those combinations will be out of phase unless I figure out some trickery.
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Hey man! Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! Alright, I have heard the ‘59 split & I thought it sounded really good. I haven’t heard the parallel, so I can’t say for sure whether it’s worth having/if it’s that much different than the parallel to be worth having. If it makes the difference between drilling a hole and not drilling a hole I’d be willing to part with it.

As for the P-Rails, I did read that it has four distinct options, but I wasn’t aware that 4 were actually usable, so yeah, I’m into getting those options in the mix!

That’s neat that it’s possible to wire the Bridge Pup to the Middle Toggle Switch of the 5-way selector and vice-versa. But I like your idea about using position #3 as Neck + Bridge! I’m up for getting a fancier switch too (Mega or Super). I decided a while back that I would wait until I have the wiring all mapped out before I place my order at Stewmac.com, so I’m still in the process of filling an order out, and I’ll add whatever parts we figure necessary! Which Switch did you have in mind? Have you tried or do you know about the Super Switch? I’ve only read about it in the “Guitar Player Repair Guide” (Dan Erlewine), but it says here that the Super Switch:

“has a total of 24 solder terminals (lugs), divided into four separate circuits, or poles, and each pole has six lugs, a common with five others. Many lever switches use the common lugs as outputs only, but with the Super Switch this is not necessarily going to be the case. The commons of this switch can be used to connect pickups together...”(pg.238)

So that sounds capable of a lot of things. Does that sound like the ideal option or were you thinking more along the lines of a Megaswitch?
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

A super switch will probably be what you need.

I had a great idea but realized it didn't do exactly what you were wanting, so back to the drawing board.

Oh, hey, what's up with the volume knob doubling as a master tone? When you pull the switch, it'll have to totally hijack the pot so if you were at 75% volume it'll jump to full when you go to use the tone. Unless that's what you wanted, you could maybe look into a stacked concentric pot, where you have a little knob in the middle and an outer ring, each controlling their own pot.
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Alright, then Super Switch it’ll be (unless we decide on something else).

Now I’m curious to know what your scrapped idea was!? I’m reasonably flexible. Though the thought of drilling a hole in the guitar scares me a bit, lol. So yeah, what was it that you had conjured up?

Like I said, I’m a nube with guitar electronics. I didn’t realize that if I had a push/pull (volume/tone) switch, it'd have to hijack the pot “so if I were at 75% volume it'll jump to full when I go to use the tone”. That’s a no-go then! I like the sounds of this “stacked concentric pot” though! I looked it up, & unfortunately Stewmac.com doesn’t carry them, but this place Allparts.com does. They offer 4 types from what I can tell – 250k/250k, 500k/500k, 250k/500k, and 500k/250k. I imagine I’d prefer the volume knob on the bottom (larger knob) and the Tone the smaller one on top, because, even though I’d scarcely do them, it’d probably be easier to do volume swells if I could rest my fingers flush against the pickguard/knob. That is unless, you think otherwise. So which of the 4 stacked concentric pots do you think would suit this situation best?

& thanks again for all of your help!!! I’d be pretty lost without ya!
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

I'd say set it up however you want it. As far as values go, one will be used for volume and the other for tone, so whatever you'd use for those. I'm starting to wonder if the pickups you're using wouldn't prefer 500k vol and tone pots.

My idea was to get all the options from the P-rail by ditching the middle pickup and using the 5-way as such:

1: neck, series
2: neck, parallel w/ split switch
3: positions 2 + 4 combined
4: bridge, parallel with p-90/rail/both switch
5: bridge, series

The 3-way selector for the bridge pickup would also select the proper coil of the neck pickup(if you had the neck split) so as to always have humcancelling operation in position #3.

The problem with the above is that you never get the to use the series setting of the pickups with each other.
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Wow Man! That sounds pretty awesome!! :) Much better then what I was thinking before! I'm totally cool with ditching the dual pick-up series setting. There seem like a lot of great tones in your plan without that setting! So what will that involve aside from a 3-way selector (on/on/on toggle switch I'm guessing?) for the Bridge Pup? Will I need a second 3-way switch for the neck?

From the reviews I've heard on the P-Rails (hot or not), the P-90 sound kicks! So as long as I've got that baby in there and can work it in combination with the Neck I'm golden!

Alright, I'm startin' to get excited, lol... Thanks as always!!!
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Hey Man! My P-Rails Hot & Little '59 just arrived from Kansas today via UPS! I'm pretty happy about that, but also eager to get this project off the ground. I don't know if you were planning on staying it out for the long haul, but I could really use your expertise to see this through! Not to mention I'd Really Appreciate it!!! I'll even take photo's along the way so you can see how it all goes down...

I was hoping you could help me decide on what parts I'll need to see your vision become a reality. You've already suggested a 500k/500k stacked concentric pot (Volume/Tone), a mini-toggle switch in the first tone pot for the Little '59 in the neck (split switch - I'm not sure which one you mean- will it be an on/off/on switch?), and also a mini-toggle in the second tone pot for the P-Rails Hot in the Bridge (parallel with p-90/rail/both switch), and last but not least a 5-Way Super Switch to get all of those awesome options you've listed in your last message! SO yeah I guess my main questions out of all that are regarding the type of toggle-switches I'll need?

If you can help with that off the bat, as soon as you let me know I can order all of the parts online. Then from there it's Blueprint time. Another area where I could Really use your Help!! :) I don't know if you'd be up for that or not, but I'll take any help you can give!!

Alright, well, I hope to hear from you soon! Thanks again!
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

I've had a couple mentally gone days... sorry about that. I'll get you a diagram yet. If you like that idea, it can be done with a superswitch and two DPDT on/on/on toggle switches. No, one of the switches should be a DPDT on/on.
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Hey man, no worries! Thanks for being willing to help out!! I do like that idea of yours and I'm right into making it a reality.

Tonight I poped the tone pots out in order to measure the diameter of the holes. They measured approx. 11/32" . So now I'm a bit concerned, as the mini-toggle switches at Stewmac.com & a few other places I checked out are all 1/4" in diameter. The tech at Long & McQuade Music told me that the typical mini-toggle switch is too small for Fender Pickguard Tone Holes. So I'm not sure what to do. I'll keep checking online to see if they make larger on/on & on/on/on toggle switches. If that doesn't pan out, I'm wondering if there's a way to make those mini-toggle's fit- I'm think some larger washers might hold it in place? I'm not sure. I also noticed that they sell normal sized toggle switches (the Gibson 3-way type) that are 1/2" in diameter. But there's no indication of what type they are (ie. on/off/on or on/on or whatever). It seems their normal function is to switch between pick-ups on a 2 humbucker Gibson guitar, but I'm wondering if they could also serve the purposes we need them for (just throwin' that out there). Anyways man, I'm still excited, just a little speed bump is all! Let me know what you think...

Oh and I've got a question about position 2 on the 5-way super switch. Is this where the on/on switch would be hooked up to? If so, what will it switch between? Will it be switching between coils (North & South) or will it be switching between parallel and split coil?
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Yeah, you're right - mini toggles are too small to fit in pot holes. I was thinking washers.

As far as other switches go, they would need to be DPDT. A gibson-style toggle may or may not work. Actually, they might. Hmmm.... I'll look into it.


Position 2 would be the little '59 in parallel, with a on/on to select both coils or split. The coil used for the split would hopefully be determined by the coil selector for the bridge pickup - that way position 3 would always be hum-cancelling.

I'm also still trying to figure a way to have your cake and eat it too. If it worked, it would be something like this:

- Neck pickup always has series/parallel/split selector.

1: Neck
2: neck plus bridge with p-90/rail/parallel selector
3: bridge, parallel with p-90/rail/parallel selector
4: neck plus series bridge
6: bridge, series
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Alright, then mini-toggles and washers it is then, that is unless you find out that the Gibson style toggle switches will work. I’m guessing that I’ll need to take the toggle’s down to a hardware store and just try and match ‘em up with a pair or two.

I am eager to place that order in a Stewmac.com for the parts though. I’ve got a gig this Halloween at this bar called “Wiseguys”. My drummer’s dad performs their on a regular basis and he invited us to go up with him and play a bunch of “War” tunes. I was hopin’ to have my guitar all wired up for the show. But hey, if it takes longer it takes longer, I’d rather do it right the first time!

Awesome job again on figuring out all of those hum-cancelling options!!! So I see that you’ve still employed the on/on in your scheme, will we still use the on/on/on for the Bridge?
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Ok, if you want my original arrangement,
1: neck, series
2: neck, parallel w/ split switch
3: positions 2 + 4 combined
4: bridge, parallel with p-90/rail/both switch
5: bridge, series
Click to expand...
the list is as follows:

1 superswitch
1 on/on/on DPDT toggle
1 on/on DPDT toggle

This can be modified to use two gibson-style toggles instead of the DPDT mini toggles, although you won't get auto-coil selection. It would look like this:

1) neck, series
2) neck, parallel with A/both/B coil selector(toggle)
3) 2 & 4 combined
4) bridge, parallel with A/both/B coil selector(toggle)
5) bridge, series

----------------------------------------------

If you want the series mode of the little '59 in combination with the bridge pickup, then we'll need to go a slightly different route. A series/split/parallel switch(like your original idea) could be attached to the neck pickup. You would pick which coil of the neck you want used when split, or basically which combination you want hum-cancelling: P-90 + neck split or rail + neck split. We also would want to figure out what to do with that extra position on the switch. Maybe could look into ideas like I suggested above.

Any which way, you want a superswitch. Unless you go with the gibson toggle idea, you want one on/on/on and either an on/on/on or on/on depending on which way you want to go. Unless you have other crazy ideas, you could go ahead and order then let me know what you want. The superswitch makes things somewhat flexible.

NOTE: Stewmac's right-angle toggle for three-pickup instruments is also an on/on/on DPDT switch. Looks cool if you can find room under the pickguard for it.
 
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Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Hey man I was little worried there, but I knew you’d pull through :). I’m Sorry that My Reply’s a little later I’ve had this really bad cold for the past 2 weeks and I’ve been really out of it! But I’m on the mend & I’ve also been running around taking care of a lot of business & working over-time (work out LoL). Thanks again for continuing to help me out I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it So on to business,

I definitely want to go with your Original Arrangement
1: neck, series
2: neck, parallel w/ split switch
3: positions 2 + 4 combined
4: bridge, parallel with p-90/rail/both switch
5: bridge, series

Let’s make that the plan for sure I’m going to place the order at Stewmac.com right now I’ve been deliberating which toggle switches to get, whether the mini- on/on/on toggles or the 3-Pickup Right-angle Switch you suggested. Both have the possibility of not fitting in my guitar, so I’ve finally decided to just order 2 of Each Lol. That way, I can’t go wrong and I’ll have an extra pair of toggles for a later project. I’m also ordering 2 On/On mini-switches as well as 1 On/Off/On Switch as a back-up for the future. It may be a bit excessive, but I really want to succeed in this, my first guitar electronics project

So for the record that’s

1- Superswitch
2- on/on/on DPDT mini-toggles
2- on/on/on 3-Pickup Right-angle Toggle Switches (DPDT)
2- on/on DPDT mini-toggle switches
1- on/off/on DPDT mini-toggle switch

As for what you mentioned regarding having the series mode of the little ‘59 in combination with the bridge pickup, I’m not really sure. I think I’ll let you make the call on this one. My only 2 cents is that I’d prefer to use the 2 - on/on/on 3-Pickup Right-angle Toggle Switches (DPDT) IF they fit. I measured the space in the guitar’s cavity and tried to approximate the size of the toggle based on the dimensions provided on their website, and it looks like it may fit, but it’ll be cutting it close, I’ll really have to wait until they’re in my hands and I can actually place it in the tone hole before I’ll know if that’s the on/on/on we’ll use. But like I said, if it does, and there’s a smart way to utilize those 2 - Right angle (3-Pup) on/on/on toggle switches then I think I’d like to do that. If not I’m good to go with your other suggestion of 1 on/on/on & 1 on/on toggle switch,. But I’m ordering all of the parts anyways, to keep our options open right up until the end of when your diagram is completed. Ok, well, my goal is to place the order at Stewmac.com tonight! Feel free to write back with a response or if I think of anything else I’ll post it up. Either way, I hope to hear from you soon! Cheers!
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Ok, sounds great. Let me know what you end up fitting in the guitar.
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

You'll be the first to know! :)

I just placed the order at Stewmac.com now!! I opted for the express air delivery (it was only $5 more). & they say the order should arrive at my place within 1-3 business days! So that's early next week. Which means I better head this weekend and purchase that Soldering Station I've been scoping out so it's all ready to go.

SO I don't know know what you're schedule's like but if you were able to draw up a Schematic/Wiring Diagram by some point next week, I would dedicate next weekend to gettin' 'er done! Maybe just in time for that Halloween jam night thing. It turns out I won't be playing those War tunes with my buddies dad, but I may be able to get the band together for our first re-union show and jam out a couple of tunes :). We'll see how she goes. Anyways, Thanks again Mr. ParameterMan!!!
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Hey Man! Slight change in plans. I've been thinking about the stacked concentric pot idea for the vol/tone & I really don't want it any more. It just seems like it'd be a mini-tower on the pickguard that might interfere with my playing, it'd also inhibit my ability to do volume swells efficently, etc... I'd like to have the first knob/pot dedicated to volume and the second knob/pot dedicated to tone. I realize that this means I'll need to drill a hole in the guitar for the switch, but I"m cool with that! It's a Fender Squire, not an American Strat (not that I love it any less). But I figure, if I'm ever going to drill a hole in a guitar, it'll be on a model such as this. This is going to be my baby frankenstein, lol. So yeah, I don't think/hope this won't mess with the plans too much. & if you can think of any cool additions (switch wise) to our schematic that you think would be worth adding, I'm right into adding it! If I'm going to drill one hole, I'm game for drilling a couple more, lol. I'll have the extra toggle switches. But if you'd rather stick with the original plan then that's good too! :) Ok brother, talk to later!
 
Re: P-Rails Hot=Bridge+Little '59in the neck (HSS) Fat Korean Squier Strat. HeLp!!?

Hmmm... maybe this?

1) Neck with series/split/parallel selector
2) positions 1 + 4 combined in series
3) positions 1 + 4 combined
4) Bridge, parallel with P-90/both/rail selector
5) Bridge, series

Gotta see if it would work... pretty dang sure it will. Methinks you'd have fun with that.
 
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