P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

[billlorentzen]

I've installed a couple PRails and Triple Shots in a Godin LGX SA. I'm quite pleased with the P90 and rail sounds, but for my taste, the serial and parallel humbuckers are either too bright or too dark. Are there any other wiring options in a humbucker mode that give more of a typical hum tone? Maybe reversing polarity on one coil?

 

[gregory]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

For the series mode, possibly rotating the pickup, otherwise you'll need to address it with a tone circuit or external EQ.

People around here like to call it a Swiss Army knife saying it is good at everything it does, going out of their way insisting it is not a jack of all trades ace of none situation. IMHO, it is only an ace at P90 unless you also like the parallel thing. It's really nothing more than personal taste at the end of the day.

 

[dystrust]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

For the series mode, possibly rotating the pickup, otherwise you'll need to address it with a tone circuit or external EQ.

People around here like to call it a Swiss Army knife saying it is good at everything it does, going out of their way insisting it is not a jack of all trades ace of none situation. IMHO, it is only an ace at P90 unless you also like the parallel thing. It's really nothing more than personal taste at the end of the day.

+1 on personal taste

I happen to like all of the sounds you can get from a P-Rails / Triple Shot combo, but the series wiring really doesn't sound like a typical humbucker. The closest I can think of is a Gibson Iommi 'bucker which is pretty fat and sludgy.

 

[AlexR]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

I only ever found the parallel really good. Maybe my tripleshots were toast....but the rail and p90 sounded so similar, and since I had real p90's to compare they didn't really do even that well for my p90 tone wishes.

 

[Mincer]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

Humbucker mode of a P-Rails was my least favorite, but I liked the other modes so much I could deal with it. Higher value pots work, so does something like an EQ pedal for when you need the humbucking modes.

 

[hamerfan]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

Did somebody try out a cap in series to block lows? This could make the highs and mids stand more out.

 

[billlorentzen]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

For the series mode, possibly rotating the pickup, otherwise you'll need to address it with a tone circuit or external EQ.

People around here like to call it a Swiss Army knife saying it is good at everything it does, going out of their way insisting it is not a jack of all trades ace of none situation. IMHO, it is only an ace at P90 unless you also like the parallel thing. It's really nothing more than personal taste at the end of the day.

I agree. The rail is not the best Strat sound I've heard, and neither of the hum modes are great, especially in the bridge position. I will say that they are very different, though.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

Which model do you have...the P-Rails (neck) or the P-Rails+ (bridge)?

I've found that the P-Rails+ is just way too strong and looses clarity, especially in series. But the neck model works great in the bridge. I mount it with the Rail coil next to the bridge and an A8 magnet next to the rail to compensate for the loss in output and to beef it up (tonewise) as well. To help reduce the potential muddiness, you can put an A4 next to the P-90 coil. This helps a lot, but the P-Rails will always sound very heavy in series mode.

I find that in all of my guitars that have P-Rails in them (3 or 4), I use the P-90 tone at least 85-90% of the time. I use the parallel tone about 10% and the rail tone about 5% of the time.

 

[Mincer]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

Which model do you have...the P-Rails (neck) or the P-Rails+ (bridge)?

I've found that the P-Rails+ is just way too strong and looses clarity, especially in series. But the neck model works great in the bridge. I mount it with the Rail coil next to the bridge and an A8 magnet next to the rail to compensate for the loss in output and to beef it up (tonewise) as well. To help reduce the potential muddiness, you can put an A4 next to the P-90 coil. This helps a lot, but the P-Rails will always sound very heavy in series mode.

I find that in all of my guitars that have P-Rails in them (3 or 4), I use the P-90 tone at least 85-90% of the time. I use the parallel tone about 10% and the rail tone about 5% of the time.

This is about my ratio, as well. But I have met people who never use the P-90 tone, and love the other ones. So, maybe it is their ears, or their specific guitar.

 

[billlorentzen]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

Which model do you have...the P-Rails (neck) or the P-Rails+ (bridge)?

I've found that the P-Rails+ is just way too strong and looses clarity, especially in series. But the neck model works great in the bridge. I mount it with the Rail coil next to the bridge and an A8 magnet next to the rail to compensate for the loss in output and to beef it up (tonewise) as well. To help reduce the potential muddiness, you can put an A4 next to the P-90 coil. This helps a lot, but the P-Rails will always sound very heavy in series mode.

I find that in all of my guitars that have P-Rails in them (3 or 4), I use the P-90 tone at least 85-90% of the time. I use the parallel tone about 10% and the rail tone about 5% of the time.

I've got the original model, neck and bridge. I never heard about putting magnets next to coils. If you beef up the rail does it end up like the p90?

I also use the P90 the majority of the time.

One dilemma for me is that the original SH2 Jazz and Custom 3 pickups sounded super nice. I was looking for more variety with the PRails, but there was a really well balanced sweetness that it had originally that I wish I could get with the PRail humbucker mode. I guess you can't have everything.

 

[Securb]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

Weird question but...does your amp have a treble knob?

 

[htwheelz67]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

I use TBX tone controls on a couple guitars with P-rails , one especially sounds great in all positions an 85 contemporary tele, original vol and tbx, I never looked but i'm wondering if it has a 250k vol pot. I usually keep the tbx cranked on that guitar which cuts the lows, it sounds better than any of my other p-rail equipped guitars, its a dual HB model, never touched or even looked at the pots, I had a 59, JB and custom in the bridge and the P-rails sound way better. I use the rail more than anything in the neck, the other two also have tbx's along with treble bleeds which really make the neck nice and spanky when turned down.

 

[billlorentzen]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

Weird question but...does your amp have a treble knob?

Oh, am I supposed to use an amp? I usually plug straight into the PA.

 

[gregory]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

I usually keep the tbx cranked on that guitar which cuts the lows

How do you have your TBX wired, 'cause that's not what they actually do.

 

[billlorentzen]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

If I could figure out how to wire the humbucker mode into the 5 way super switch so as to bypass the tone pot, would that make it brighter?

 

[htwheelz67]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

How do you have your TBX wired, 'cause that's not what they actually do.

"A lot of people think of the TBX tone control as a treble boost, but that’s not quite accurate. The TBX control actually consists of a custom dual-ganged pot (aka a “stacked” or “stereo” pot), a resistor, and a capacitor that cuts the bass and treble out of the circuit, depending on which way you turn the knob. This can add some new dimension to your solo parts, especially if you are going for those bright, crystal clear Jeff Beck tones.

The basic configuration of the TBX control (Fender part no. 0992052000) changed several times over the years. Fender used several different values for the two pots, the capacitor, and the resistor. The first few versions also lacked a center detent function. The current version consists of a detented 250k/1 Meg stacked pot, a 0.022uF standard film capacitor, and an 82k-ohm carbon-film resistor. In a nutshell, the TBX tone control is a special pot that cuts either treble or bass instead of a normal tone pot, which cuts only treble. This is done with the dual-ganged pot, which is wired to work as a low-pass filter in one direction and a high-pass filter in the other. The center detent in the middle is provided for the off or “flat” position."

 

[gregory]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

A lot of words for an inaccurate description. Have you actually analyzed the circuit or are you mindlessly quoting the web?

Hint: caps can only cut bass when in series. The cap in a TBX acts exactly the same as the cap in a traditional tone control, which is a low-pass.



Some edification in lay-terms:
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...Hot-Gold-Set&p=4147337&viewfull=1#post4147337

 

[gregory]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

If I could figure out how to wire the humbucker mode into the 5 way super switch so as to bypass the tone pot, would that make it brighter?

The resonant peak will increase which could do the trick.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

How do you have your TBX wired, 'cause that's not what they actually do.

Well, actually, yes. They cut treble when turned in one direction, just like a standard tone control. But when turned the other direction (past the mid point) the TBX does cut bass. The mid position is when there is no treble nor bass cut, like a standard tone control wide open.

 

[gregory]

Re: P Rails - Options to brighten humbucker mode?

Well, actually, no.

Mid positon is the pickup loaded by the 82k resistor, with the 250k/22nF completely out of circuit.

The 82k is then in series with an increasing 1M audio-taper pot.

Not a bass cut. Not even close.

Feel free to either grab or draw-up a schematic.

You're just dead wrong, GuitarDoc.