p-rails...sound issue

[ronnes]

hi there! my first post here!

so this is the deal
i have just assembled my first tele. with p rails in it, because i was so impressed by the clarity and clean the sound was in the demo video on youtube with frank falbo doing the demo. but i cant seem to get the trebble, presence and sparkle, it just sounds muddy! ive compared to a squier original strat made in japan, and that is much more cleaner in sound. i use a 0,022 cap instead of a 0,047 like listed in the schematics.

thanks
ronnes

 

[lyongraulty]

Re: p-rails...sound issue

Do all the sounds work correctly? The series humbucker sounds are pretty beefy and bassy, but the single coils should sound nice and clear. What ohm rating are your pots? I would use 500k for both volume and tone. Maybe even go up to 1 Meg if that doesn't brighten things up.

 

[Sludgenutz]

Re: p-rails...sound issue

If you are using stock Fender 250K pots, consider 500K pots as a baseline for P-Rails.

Pot shafy fitment diameter, and knob-knurl compatibility may be another issue with replacement controls.

 

[ronnes]

Re: p-rails...sound issue

its not a fender its a saga guitar kit i have built, but only the body, neck and pickup switch remains, everything else is swapped out with something better.

i use 500k pots,the only thing i use that is not top quality in the electronics is the pickup switch its the original that came with the saga guitar kit.

can the pickup switch alter the tone in such way?

 

[ronnes]

Re: p-rails...sound issue

Do all the sounds work correctly? The series humbucker sounds are pretty beefy and bassy, but the single coils should sound nice and clear. What ohm rating are your pots? I would use 500k for both volume and tone. Maybe even go up to 1 Meg if that doesn't brighten things up.

i wired it like it said on instruction here on the duncan site, two push/pulls one for tone and one for vol. only difference is 0,022 cap. all the sounds work, the humbucker i like but the single coil(rail) and the P90 is much more muddy than i expected. i was expecting a little more strat like clarity, snap and trebble. now its like the tone of a humbucker but not all that beefy and bassy(not literarily, its still a singlecoil)

hard to explain:banghead:

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: p-rails...sound issue

Hmm. Something has to be wrong. There is a chance you're mixing the wires from one pickp to the other. I believe there was one or two wiring diagrams that, in the beginning, were crossed. So they would probably work correctly in the Humbucking position, but in the split positions they would combine the coils of the two pickups in unusual ways, and possibly load the coils down. Can you post a link to the exact diagram you used? It could be an old link that wasn't corrected.

The split coils are very bright and lively, and the demo video is a good representation, so I believe something is out of sorts.

Welcome to the forum, even if it is under these circumstances!

 

[ronnes]

Re: p-rails...sound issue

Hmm. Something has to be wrong. There is a chance you're mixing the wires from one pickp to the other. I believe there was one or two wiring diagrams that, in the beginning, were crossed. So they would probably work correctly in the Humbucking position, but in the split positions they would combine the coils of the two pickups in unusual ways, and possibly load the coils down. Can you post a link to the exact diagram you used? It could be an old link that wasn't corrected.

The split coils are very bright and lively, and the demo video is a good representation, so I believe something is out of sorts.

Welcome to the forum, even if it is under these circumstances!

thanks for the welcome!

its very likely that i could have accidently wired it wrong, because i just got the wiring diagram, and its most likely the updated one. maybe i should start all over again with the wiring and soldering, try it once more, maybe just human error .

could the switch affect the tone then? probably not?

man im impressed to se that you frank take the time to answer posts. now thats service!

 

[MikeS]

Re: p-rails...sound issue

Odd. A link to the diagram you used?

I recall the diagrams that were a little goofed, and I found sitting in my "outbox" the PM I sent Frank about it... the error in the original diagram was in the series operation, not the split ones. Of course that diagram is long gone and Frank may be right that there were other things going on that I didn't catch.

edit: see the diagram now. That's a revised diagram, and the tones should work as drawn. The switch wouldn't impact the tone as you are describing. Check you connections. Also check your tone capacitor... push/pulls are tight to work around, and if part of the capacitor is in contact with a lug on the push/pull you could get some frequencies bled to ground in certain positions.

 

[lyongraulty]

Re: p-rails...sound issue

Make sure you didn't wire the tone control backwards. If that is the case the dial would read ten but it would be cutting the treble all the way out like it was on zero. Also, sometimes a bad pot will leak signal all the way to the other lug even if it's on 10.

 

[ronnes]

Re: p-rails...sound issue

Make sure you didn't wire the tone control backwards. If that is the case the dial would read ten but it would be cutting the treble all the way out like it was on zero. Also, sometimes a bad pot will leak signal all the way to the other lug even if it's on 10.

if i wired the tone control backwards, would the tone control still work like a tone control,only with less trebble? because i can use it to roll of more trebble. i use ALPHA pots 500k push/pull.

 

[lyongraulty]

Re: p-rails...sound issue

if i wired the tone control backwards, would the tone control still work like a tone control,only with less trebble? because i can use it to roll of more trebble. i use ALPHA pots 500k push/pull.

no, it would have full treble when set to zero.

try running the pickups right to the volume control, disconnecting the tone circuit altogether. it sounds like the capacitor is bridging some connection. if that doesn't work, take the hot lead from the switch and run it right to the jack.

 

[ronnes]

Re: p-rails...sound issue

hmmm... i will take a look at the electronics when i get home from work. maybe the cap is touching a lug. i remember that i used a steel braided wire for shielding, where the braiding could have touched the other lugs than it should, and therfor getting this sound...

but on the other hand i think its only the split coils that has the muddy sound,the humbucker sound is actually quite as expected. wouldn it affect both the humbucker mode and the split modes if the cap was the problem?
maybe the humbucker should have been brighter too...

 

[MikeS]

Re: p-rails...sound issue

wouldn it affect both the humbucker mode and the split modes if the cap was the problem?

Depends... the cap could be contacting one of the lugs closest to the pot on the push/pull. If that were the case, the cap might only affect the tones accessed by pulling up on that particular push/pull. Weirder things have happened, it's not that much of a longshot considering how cramped the space around a push/pull can become.