P90s for Les Paul

D

Davidb

Administrator
I have a Dillion Les Paul setup for humbuckers and I want to put a set of P90 pickups in it but I am not ready to make the holes big enough for a real set of traditional P90 pickups.

My question is if I am going for the more traditional P90 sound am I going to be better off with the Phat Cat pickups or P-Rails?
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Thats a hard call. I had a set of Phat cats in a LP for quite awhile and that same guitar now has a set of P-Rails. Both sets are very authentic sounding as far as P-90 tones go but the humbucker and single coil tones from the P Rails are also very nice. I especially like the P-Rails neck humbucker tone.

If you don't feel you'll need the options that the P-Rails offers and only wany great P-90 tones from that guitar then get the Phat Cats. I'd give you a better A/B if I still had the phat Cats in a guitar but I don't.

Either way you can't go wrong if you like P-90s.
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

one note about the phat cats... they come stock with dual a2 magnets, and the bridge isn't calibrated quite that well for the neck pickup(output is a bit mismatched). blueman should be here soon to spread his mag-swap gospel;)
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

super rad ska said:
one note about the phat cats... they come stock with dual a2 magnets, and the bridge isn't calibrated quite that well for the neck pickup(output is a bit mismatched). blueman should be here soon to spread his mag-swap gospel;)
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It's like you guys put on the Bat signal. This (below) applies to P-90's, PC's, P-94's, etc; everything with twin bar magnets.

I have more Phat Cats than just about anybody on this forum, but I'll tell you, the stock A2's don't work for me. I've pulled all of them out. I started experimenting with the neck PC first, and used HB's in the bridge, which BTW is a very good combination. You get the warmth & power of a bridge HB where you need it, and the treble & clarity of a single coil to prevent a muddy neck. Why isn't this a common set-up on factory guitars?

Twin A2's make a PCN very dark, which other players here have commented on. I replaced one with an A5, and that was a big improvement: more treble & definition. Then I wanted to add more treble, to see if I could get it sounding like a bridge PU, but with more mids & lows. I found the A5/A3 and A5/A4 pair to be ideal. The A5/A3 is the brighter of the two, very open & clear, and single coil sounding. The A5/A4 pair is gutsier, with more mid-range punch, and some crunch to it.

I have an Epi LP Std that I recently put a pair of Phat Cats in, wanting to make a bridge PC work (I didn't want to drill holes for P-90s). Stock bridge PC's are kind of thin & weak to me. Since an LP is a warm body, I went with an A5/A3 in the neck for clarity. I wanted a warm & muscular bridge, so I used an A8/A4, mixing the warmth & output of the A8, with a dash of treble from the A4 for bite. Turned out to be very good combinations for both. I also put in a push-pull, so I can link the PU's in parallel & series, making them a virtual humbucker. This also works well. I've got 4 good tones to work with.

You can do all of this with P-90's, and you may find that you like a different magnet set better. The beauty of it is the twin magnets, with give you finer increments in adjusting your tone, by blending magnet characteristics.
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Aceman said:
WHOA!!!!!!! Didn't see that coming! :lmao:
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By now, you should have. I spent my wonderbread years with A5's, and grown accustomed to having some bite in the tone (I love pick noise). I've found ways to warm bridge PU's and still keep bite; I've been able to do that with every alnico magnet except A2's. Top too rounded, low output, and too loose on the bottom. Thin in the bridge & dark in the neck. To me, the virtues don't outweigh all this.

Hey, if you like PC's with the stock magnets, that's fine. I just think they're capable of so much more with pairs of different magnets.
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Howdy,

FWIW, my Gibson LP Special has an aftermarket set of SD Vintage '59s and it's my favorite guitar now. A very satisfying mix of fatness and clarity..perfect.

Eggman
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

blueman, it occurs to me that you have quite a large stock of A2's that you've pulled out of pickups over the years - what do you do with them? refrigerator magnets? paper weights? I must say, I'm quite curious about it...
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Wow thank you all so much!

I am definitely very much focused on P90 tone only I have a fender strat for my single coil and an epi SG with JB Model and Jazz Model for my humbucker sounds so I really want this guitar to be totally focused on P90. Every P90 I have played I have loved they have such an awesome sound.

Bluesman: thanks the suggestions sound great where would you suggest ordering replacement magnets from? I think doing something like you describe will probably give me the sound I am looking for.

Also the guitar is not in great shape so I expect to be replacing other hardware where is a good place to order replacement pots, wiring, knobs from?
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

jimijames said:
blueman, it occurs to me that you have quite a large stock of A2's that you've pulled out of pickups over the years - what do you do with them? refrigerator magnets? paper weights? I must say, I'm quite curious about it...
Click to expand...

:chairfall:lmao:
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

I think the alnico 2 Phat Cat bridge model is one of the best sounding pickups in Duncan's line up. Sounds a bit like a vintage alnico 2 paf and alnico 2 paf style bridge humbuckers are my favorites.

The neck model is excellent too, but for my own needs I'd prefer it to be a little lower in output, and brighter and clearer.
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

jimijames said:
blueman, it occurs to me that you have quite a large stock of A2's that you've pulled out of pickups over the years - what do you do with them? refrigerator magnets? paper weights? I must say, I'm quite curious about it...
Click to expand...

I keep a stockpile of spare magnets (no surprise). I have at least 20 Duncan & Gibson A2's at this point. Need some A2's?
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Davidb said:
Bluesman: thanks the suggestions sound great where would you suggest ordering replacement magnets from? I think doing something like you describe will probably give me the sound I am looking for.
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I get magnets from Wymore Guitars.com. Fast service. I'd recommend getting an assortment of alnicos. $50 orders have free shipping, and for me that's great; I do a lot of swapping & I always have some of everything on hand when I need it, and don't have to wait for another shipment, and pay shipping a second time.

I think with P-90's/Phat Cats, you can get the tones you want by swapping magnets. Lots of flexibility.
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Lewguitar said:
I think the alnico 2 Phat Cat bridge model is one of the best sounding pickups in Duncan's line up. Sounds a bit like a vintage alnico 2 paf and alnico 2 paf style bridge humbuckers are my favorites.
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yup, i love the stock phat cat in the bridge! nice and fat but with enough bite to cut thru
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

I didn't like the P-94, too harsh, nothing like the warm soapbars from a R4 I have.

The P-rails in P-90 mode sounds great but much smoother, more fi-fi than a real soapbar. Still a good option because it gives you the right "balls" sound.

I have Phat Cat that I didn't test yet.
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Robert S. said:
Thats a hard call. I had a set of Phat cats in a LP for quite awhile and that same guitar now has a set of P-Rails. Both sets are very authentic sounding as far as P-90 tones go but the humbucker and single coil tones from the P Rails are also very nice. I especially like the P-Rails neck humbucker tone.

If you don't feel you'll need the options that the P-Rails offers and only wany great P-90 tones from that guitar then get the Phat Cats. I'd give you a better A/B if I still had the phat Cats in a guitar but I don't.

Either way you can't go wrong if you like P-90s.
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Pardon.........Phat Cats sound like P90 's ?????

Only if you've been smoking too much of something!!!

Phat Cats sound nothing like P90's !....period !!!
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Hmm... if it does not sound like a P90 do you have any suggestions on how to get P90 sound in a humbucker size pickup?
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Davidb said:
Hmm... if it does not sound like a P90 do you have any suggestions on how to get P90 sound in a humbucker size pickup?
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You will notice that Jason Lollar of Lollar pickups does not advertise on his web site the fact that he makes and sells Humbucker cased P90's.
As he says..." I cannot make a P90 that sounds like a P90 because of the fact that a P90 has an extended length coil. I make a pickup that sounds quite close,... but not indentical."

Bryan Gunther of BG pickups , Jason Lollar and GFS Mean 90 's sound almost identical to the the thick, rich, full, smooth, creamy sound of a genuine P90.
SD Phat Cats nor Gibson P94's do not.
The above are some of the very few pickup makers that have had success in making a humbucker cased single coil that actually sounds anything like a real P90.

Gibson P94's and SD Phat Cats may have a pleasing sound ( especially to those that don't have a guitar equipped with P90's ) but they are a far cry from sounding anything like a real P90.
They are in the multitudinousness list of pickup makers that market their Humbucker cased single coils as P90's.
If you want a pickup that sounds like a cross between a humbucker and a single coil then go ahead and buy one.

If however you want a pickup that actually sounds like a genuine P90, then I'd suggest you contact the aforementioned pickup makers and have a talk to them about the difficulties in making humbucker cased P90's that realkly sound like P90's, listen to some soundclips, read some reviews and try and visit a guitar store and play guitars fitted with some of the more common pseudo P90's and make up your own mind.

The pickup market is becoming flooded with single coil ,humbucker cased, "P90 want-to-be's."

The reality is.... very few actually deliver a genuine P90 sound !
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

have you ever put two a5's in a phat cat? obviously an a2 p90 isnt going to sound like an a5 p90.

what lollar says about the longer coil is interesting cause i have a few old gibson p90s and if you trimmed the bobbin off where there is no wire, it will fit in a bucker size hole.
 
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