P90s for Les Paul

Re: P90s for Les Paul

I don't like P-90's. Never have. I like the soloing tone Leslie West used to get with his single P-90 Les Paul Jr, but that's about it.

They don't have the open bubbley clear tone of a vintage Strat single coil and they're not hot enough to push my amp into a singing overdrive like a vintage paf humbucker would - so I fail to see the attraction.

For that reason, I consider the Phat Cat to be an improvement over most P-90's and, IMO, the Phat Cat, especially the bridge Phat Cat, sounds better to me than most P-90's.

If I were a Les Paul player and had a LP with humbuckers I'd leave it alone. But if I wanted to go with a "P-90 in a humbucker size" it's hard to beat the Phat Cats - especially the bridge Phat Cat.

And they do sound like P-90's - only better.

Lew
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

wanmei1 said:
You will notice that Jason Lollar of Lollar pickups does not advertise on his web site the fact that he makes and sells Humbucker cased P90's.
As he says..." I cannot make a P90 that sounds like a P90 because of the fact that a P90 has an extended length coil. I make a pickup that sounds quite close,... but not indentical."
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Dunno.

The only reason why my R4 soapbars (without covers) don't fit into a humbucker route is the baseplace, and only by 2 mm or so.
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Lewguitar said:
I don't like P-90's.

For that reason, I consider the Phat Cat to be an improvement over most P-90's and, IMO, the Phat Cat, especially the bridge Phat Cat, sounds better to me than most P-90's.

And they do sound like P-90's - only better.

Lew
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Yes that's right!
And $50 Strat copies sound like Fender custom Strats - only better.
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

jeremy said:
have you ever put two a5's in a phat cat? obviously an a2 p90 isnt going to sound like an a5 p90.

what lollar says about the longer coil is interesting cause i have a few old gibson p90s and if you trimmed the bobbin off where there is no wire, it will fit in a bucker size hole.
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I've tried a couple of combinations of different magnets and mixing 3/8th" with half inch magnets but nothing I've tried makes a Phat Cat sound like a P90. It always sounds like a humbucker/single coil hybrid as do the majority of humbucker cased "wanna-be" P90's on the market.

Interesting to note that many people suggest Gibson P94's also don't sound like a genuine P90.

I wonder why both Gibson and SD didn't just trim the bobbin off to make a humbucker cased P90 ?
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

wanmei1 said:
The pickup market is becoming flooded with single coil ,humbucker cased, "P90 want-to-be's." The reality is.... very few actually deliver a genuine P90 sound !
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Then... tell us now who does!

I think the problem is that there is nothing like "the P90 sound". Its like there is nothing like the PAF sound - there 100's of takes what the PAF sound could be.
P90 were also wound randomly, in the vintage P90 are a lot of different magnets. There is nothing like "the sound". Some are more raunchy (lots of windings) or brighter with less windings. Even the modern Gibson P90 are different.
Anyone should write the story of P90 like they did for the PAF and you will see.
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

hamerfan said:
Then... tell us now who does!

I think the problem is that there is nothing like "the P90 sound". Its like there is nothing like the PAF sound - there 100's of takes what the PAF sound could be.
P90 were also wound randomly, in the vintage P90 are a lot of different magnets. There is nothing like "the sound". Some are more raunchy (lots of windings) or brighter with less windings. Even the modern Gibson P90 are different.
Anyone should write the story of P90 like they did for the PAF and you will see.
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Bryan Gunther from BG pickups.
GFS's Mean 90's.
Bareknuckle's Mississippi Queens.


Your being pedantic as it is not a true vintage sound that is being sought.
True vintage sound cannot be accurately duplicated for any pickup, single coil, humbucker, mini humbucker or P90.

It is a generic sound that most agree is typical of the tonal qualities that are representative and attributable to P90's.
That is ....A distinctive, fat, rich, full, creamy, bluesy, smooth sound with exceptional sustain that is capable of crunch.

It neither sounds like a humbucker,a single coil, nor a mini humbucker and it doesn't or shouldn't sound like a hybrid single coil/humbucker ala Gibson P94's or SD Phat cats.

A P90 is and has it's own unmistakeable distinct sound.
What an LP is to guitars a P90 is to pickups.

The above criteria is not met by most humbucker cased P90's such as Gibson P94's or SD Phat Cats which sound like hybrids.
Compare a Gibson P90 to a Gibson humbucker cased P94 or humbucker cased Phat Cat and the difference is more than obvious.
 
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Re: P90s for Les Paul

wanmei1 said:
Compare a Gibson P90 to a Gibson humbucker cased P94 or humbucker cased Phat Cat and the difference is more than obvious.
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I can vouch for that. I have a set of Gibson P-94s in a 1980 Vantage Les Paul clone and I've got a friend's Gibson Les Paul '57 Goldtop reissue with P-90s to check for that classic "P-90s sound". They don't sound alike at all, not even close, I was dissapointed of the P-94s.

Just because a client of mine wanted his p'ups replaced with GFS Mean 90s I had the chance of making a direct comparison and all I can say is that those Mean 90s DO sound REALLY CLOSE to those P-90s. So close I couldn't tell'em apart in a blindfold test. Again all odds.

My $ 0.20 worth for the day! :)
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Ok so I have been doing a lot of reading all over this forum and other places on the internet and I am seeing lots of good things about the GFS mean 90 Neck and Lots of good things about the Phat Cat Bridge, but not hearing anything great about the mean 90 Bridge or the Phat Cat Neck.

I want to know if it would work to put in the GFS Neck and Phat cat bridge in the same guitar? Would that sound ok? Are there any reasons it is a bad idea?
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Davidb said:
Ok so I have been doing a lot of reading all over this forum and other places on the internet and I am seeing lots of good things about the GFS mean 90 Neck and Lots of good things about the Phat Cat Bridge, but not hearing anything great about the mean 90 Bridge or the Phat Cat Neck.

I want to know if it would work to put in the GFS Neck and Phat cat bridge in the same guitar? Would that sound ok? Are there any reasons it is a bad idea?
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This is by no means a slam on any vendor or player, but you should seriously consider that the buyers of GFS pickups have lower standards.

They are much cheaper, that has implications on what they compared them to and how many different pickups they compared them to.

Most importantly, I'm going on a limb here and say that owners of boutique pickups and the rarer Seymour Duncans are much more likely to own or have owned a real P-90 guitar, more likely than the buyers of cheap pickups.
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

Davidb said:
Lots of good things about the Phat Cat Bridge, but not hearing anything great about the Phat Cat Neck.
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Both Phat Cats have twin A2's, which makes the neck dark and the bridge thin & low output. Depending on the wood, they may or may not have the sound you want. I wasn't impressed at first, but once I started swapping magnets in my PC's (all the A2's got yanked) I've gotten some excellent tones. So much so I have a bunch of PC's now, bridge & neck.

Put an A5 in the PCN & it'll open up the sound with the treble boost. Make it an A5/A3 and it will sound even better. For the PCB, I have an A8/A4, which gives more output, more crunch, and a tighter low end.

I'm a long-term HB guy, and I like Phat Cats because they give some tonal variety; I'm not disappointed that they're not pure P-90. I like them for being brighter and better defined on the neck, with no muddiness (after swapping magnets), and giving another viable option for the bridge.
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

blueman335 said:
Both Phat Cats have twin A2's, which makes the neck dark and the bridge thin & low output. Depending on the wood, they may or may not have the sound you want. I wasn't impressed at first, but once I started swapping magnets in my PC's (all the A2's got yanked) I've gotten some excellent tones. So much so I have a bunch of PC's now, bridge & neck.

Put an A5 in the PCN & it'll open up the sound with the treble boost. Make it an A5/A3 and it will sound even better. For the PCB, I have an A8/A4, which gives more output, more crunch, and a tighter low end.

I'm a long-term HB guy, and I like Phat Cats because they give some tonal variety; I'm not disappointed that they're not pure P-90. I like them for being brighter and better defined on the neck, with no muddiness (after swapping magnets), and giving another viable option for the bridge.
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there's definitely no mud in the neck with the a5/a3 combo. i use the bridge version, which is hotter and used to be mud city in it's stock form, but even with it's higher output it's clean and clear. even with gobs of distortion, you can still clearly hear every note perfectly defined, even through chords. it's in a wierd way 'organically hi-fi':smokin:
 
Re: P90s for Les Paul

In a drawer gathering dust I have the following :

A $300 plus set of custom made Lindy Fralin H.cased P90's.
A Gibson P94 neck
A SD Phat Cat neck
A custom made H.cased P90 neck.

The following are in my guitars and not gathering dust:

A set of Gibson P90's.
2 x GFS Mean 90 necks.
A set of Epiphone dog ear P90's.
 
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