P90's in my 97 SG special

[Micah]

Ok--so Ive been looking for a certain sound out of my Telecaster and no matter which pickup I put in it, it never got the tone i was looking for. I talked to Zhangliquin(BTW-I cant say enough good things about Zhang.....) about having him make me a Paul Bunyan Pickup for it, and the more we talked, them it became apparent to both him and myself that the tone I was after was totally P90. Growl, punch and crunch, yet still undeniably single coil when the volume is backed of-I wouldnt say fender tones, but definatly jangly clean tones. So I found this guy in a local craigslist posting that had a Les Paul Special DC with P90's in it and was just tired of it and wanted to trade it for something else. Well--we traded my Made in Korea Lite Ash tele for his LPDC w/P90's. Wow!! The tone Ive been looking for undeniably. It is truely the best of every world IMO. SO Growly! SO punchy! So Jangly clean and the more gain you feed it, the tighter feeling it gets. Amazing!

Anyway--I have an 97 model SG that I would like to retrofit to P90's now as well. Its set up for humbuckers so I called a local music store to inquire about having it routed to accept P90's. To my suprize the guy that answered the phone had done the same thing with his SG. He said that the way Gibson routes these guitars it will accept either without routing them! SWEET! Just need to order a pickguard which I found for about 30 bucks.

Anyway, The question I have is about the height adjustment screws. Has anyone out there done this or have an SG Classic with P90's in it? Are they the Soapbars with the screws through the center into press-fit barrels in the wood? Or are they dog-ears with a nut on the end of the base plate and screws on the sides of the hole in the pickguard? If so, is there a difference in the shape of the baseplate to accomodate the hole in the SG?

Thanks for any help you could give me on this! Love thos 90's!

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

Dogear P90's use a very different baseplate from soapbars. The soapbar plate is just a flat piece of metal with, obviously, no ears. The soapbar P90 mounts, as yours do, via screws through center of the pickup in the wood in the bottom of the cavity. Some are woodscrews direct into the wood, some are bolts that screw into bushings in the bottom of the cavity.

The dogear plate is sort of like a metal tub the bobbin and magnets sit in with the ears for mounting at each end.

Because they are mounted differently, they tend to sound a little different too, according to most. And most, though they love both, tend to prefer the dogear. I'm thinking that it picks up more vibrations from the wood since it is mounted tight to the wood instead of loose with a spring.

 

[Micah]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

Dogear P90's use a very different baseplate from soapbars. The soapbar plate is just a flat piece of metal with, obviously, no ears. The soapbar P90 mounts, as yours do, via screws through center of the pickup in the wood in the bottom of the cavity. Some are woodscrews direct into the wood, some are bolts that screw into bushings in the bottom of the cavity.

The dogear plate is sort of like a metal tub the bobbin and magnets sit in with the ears for mounting at each end.

Because they are mounted differently, they tend to sound a little different too, according to most. And most, though they love both, tend to prefer the dogear. I'm thinking that it picks up more vibrations from the wood since it is mounted tight to the wood instead of loose with a spring.

Awesome to hear from you Zhang! Hey man-I sent u a note about the new purchase (trade) that did exactly what I wanted it to thanks to your great advice! So, I think Im going to instead have you wrap me up some hot 90"s for my existing SG as well. I ordered a pickguard for it and it looks like the picture shows mounting screws on the sides of the pickup mounting holes which is telling me it should be some sort of dog-ear style. When you make these pickups as in my case, is there a way for you to put some sort of a threaded nut or something for the screw to adjust on the bottom of the mounting plate for the adjustment? Also, do you/can you include mounting screws for them (understanding if there is an increase in price thats fine)? Otherwise, I should order some screws as well. Thanks Zhang!

 

[sosomething]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

In my experience with P-90s of both types, I find that I've liked guitars with the Dogear variety much, much, much more. To my ears, they sound woodier and more responsive, and usually have a deeper percussive attack that seems to respond much more nicely to heavy gain.

I think this is why I prefer Gibson LP and SG Junior-type guitars to most others, including older P-90 Specials and Classics with soapbars.

 

[Micah]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

In my experience with P-90s of both types, I find that I've liked guitars with the Dogear variety much, much, much more. To my ears, they sound woodier and more responsive, and usually have a deeper percussive attack that seems to respond much more nicely to heavy gain.

I think this is why I prefer Gibson LP and SG Junior-type guitars to most others, including older P-90 Specials and Classics with soapbars.

Good info man! Im sure that a dogear P90 mounted to a pickguard with height adjustment screws kind of diminishes that effect.. Oh well--I really like the LP special I have with soapbars mounted through the center of the pickup and into barrel nuts pressed into the bottom of the pickup cavity. Im sure that a direct surface mount to the wood does sound better, but Im still having a hard time getting over the drasticly better sound that the pickup itself is making to my tone! Great sound!

So, does anyone know how they mount the P90's on the SG Classics? It looks like there are screws through the center, but also adjustment screws on the sides of the pickup holes on the pickguard as well. Anyone know?? Im going to need to know that before I can retrofit my SG Special with P90's.

 

[sosomething]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

Good info man! Im sure that a dogear P90 mounted to a pickguard with height adjustment screws kind of diminishes that effect.. Oh well--I really like the LP special I have with soapbars mounted through the center of the pickup and into barrel nuts pressed into the bottom of the pickup cavity. Im sure that a direct surface mount to the wood does sound better, but Im still having a hard time getting over the drasticly better sound that the pickup itself is making to my tone! Great sound!

So, does anyone know how they mount the P90's on the SG Classics? It looks like there are screws through the center, but also adjustment screws on the sides of the pickup holes on the pickguard as well. Anyone know?? Im going to need to know that before I can retrofit my SG Special with P90's.

Well, I will freely admit that my experience with soapbars is more limited and the differences in sound that I perceive could be due to factors other than the pickups themselves.

I'd still take a soapbar P-90 over most other types of pup!

Plus, on an inherently dark, resonant guitar, soapbars could definitely be what the doctor ordered.

I don't know how the pickups are mounted on the SG Classics. I do know that Pink Unicorn Horsey owns a really nice one, so he may chime in with the answer.

 

[Micah]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

Definatly! Pink Unicorn Horsey where are you???

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

would you be willing to consider either mean 90s or phat cats:naughty:

 

[Mark Cearlock]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

Good info man! Im sure that a dogear P90 mounted to a pickguard with height adjustment screws kind of diminishes that effect.. Oh well--I really like the LP special I have with soapbars mounted through the center of the pickup and into barrel nuts pressed into the bottom of the pickup cavity. Im sure that a direct surface mount to the wood does sound better, but Im still having a hard time getting over the drasticly better sound that the pickup itself is making to my tone! Great sound!

So, does anyone know how they mount the P90's on the SG Classics? It looks like there are screws through the center, but also adjustment screws on the sides of the pickup holes on the pickguard as well. Anyone know?? Im going to need to know that before I can retrofit my SG Special with P90's.

My squier tele custom 2 (p90) had screws though the pickup- which mounted it to a metal plate underneath in which mounted to the pickgaurd like a hb would. perhaps the same?

 

[uOpt]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

Anyway--I have an 97 model SG that I would like to retrofit to P90's now as well. Its set up for humbuckers so I called a local music store to inquire about having it routed to accept P90's. To my suprize the guy that answered the phone had done the same thing with his SG. He said that the way Gibson routes these guitars it will accept either without routing them! SWEET! Just need to order a pickguard which I found for about 30 bucks.

Random comments:

Any humbucker route is almost big enough for a soapbar (at least a Gibson one) baseplate. You would only have to take off some of the edge that is between the pickup height screw and the zone for the pickup ring screws. Alternatively, in some combinations of humbucker route and soapbar you can just clip the edge off the P-90 baseplate.

A "real" soapbar mount goes direction to the wood. If I were to permanently assemble a soapbar guitar I would place wood of carefully measured thickness on the bottom of the cavity and then hard screw the soapbars on it.

I never had a guitar with dogears mounted in a pickguard but I had to revise my opinion about the "wobbly" mount for Strats, so it might have it's merit. If the "ears" are not just plastic, if the metal baseplate extends there there another sound changer.

I find it hard to believe that a batman pickguard SG is routed so that it would accept dogers. I might be delighted to find out it's true because I'm going to fiddle with a SG standard soon. I suppose it possible since there are no posts for humbucker ring screws.

P-90 quality matters, a lot. Get something really cool, like Antiquities or Zang's or whatever.

 

[ES350]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

I don't think you have the string clearance for dogears + covers on an SG---that mount was designed for archtops with a lot more clearance. You can't get one in the neck position on a LP Jr very easily without cutting it way down...

 

[sosomething]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

I don't think you have the string clearance for dogears + covers on an SG---that mount was designed for archtops with a lot more clearance. You can't get one in the neck position on a LP Jr very easily without cutting it way down...

???

 

[ES350]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

It fits fine in the bridge position; in the neck position, you gotta take out a lot of wood (hasta la vista to the neck joint) and the dogear cover has to get cut down...I've done it, but I don't recommend it. Gibson never made a 2 pickup solidbody with dogears on the LP/SG design...there's a reason.

 

[sosomething]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

Not saying you're wrong.. just trying to get clarification on your statements.

FWIW, Heritage makes a guitar like you describe...

 

[Micah]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

Random comments:

Any humbucker route is almost big enough for a soapbar (at least a Gibson one) baseplate. You would only have to take off some of the edge that is between the pickup height screw and the zone for the pickup ring screws. Alternatively, in some combinations of humbucker route and soapbar you can just clip the edge off the P-90 baseplate.

A "real" soapbar mount goes direction to the wood. If I were to permanently assemble a soapbar guitar I would place wood of carefully measured thickness on the bottom of the cavity and then hard screw the soapbars on it.

I never had a guitar with dogears mounted in a pickguard but I had to revise my opinion about the "wobbly" mount for Strats, so it might have it's merit. If the "ears" are not just plastic, if the metal baseplate extends there there another sound changer.

I find it hard to believe that a batman pickguard SG is routed so that it would accept dogers. I might be delighted to find out it's true because I'm going to fiddle with a SG standard soon. I suppose it possible since there are no posts for humbucker ring screws.

P-90 quality matters, a lot. Get something really cool, like Antiquities or Zang's or whatever.

Allot of great info here! Thanks for the add. So, Ive been doing some research on the internet and Im finding that guy @ the store was full of it. I know now that I will have to do a bit of routing. The guitar tech I trust to do the routing says he charges 35 per pickup for the routing. So, for 70 I think Im going to buy a dremel tool and attachment to route it out myself. The pickguard I ordered (and the one that comes stock on the guitar is not the batwing but the full coverage type since its an SG special and not the 61 reissue type guitar. Because of that it has a little different placement of the pickups than a standard humbucker setup. It places the bridge pickup a little closer to the bridge as well as the neck pickup to keep from having to route the neck tenon @ all. I want to keep the guitar as structurally reliable as it always has been. So, Im going to order some hot wound 90's from Zhang for it. I found a great instructional @:
http://www.everythingsg.com/howto/p90conv/1.html

 

[Micah]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

would you be willing to consider either mean 90s or phat cats:naughty:

Hey man-you know I was thinking about doing some phat cats or some mean 90's or Zhangs version of them. But, as I disected the idea more and more with Zhang's advice, the conclusion was that allot of the reason that P90's sound the way they do is because the windings are run the way they are. Short bobbin and really wide (fat) which gives them tight mid-range and tons of growl. Well, in order to make all of those windings fit under a humbucker cover, you have to limit the # of windings you can wrap on it (or use smaller guage wire; 42 plain enamel wire was used on the original gibson 90's). Also, the bobbin is taller than a P90 which moves some of the magnetic field futher from the strings. After playing my Les Paul Special for a while I knew that P90's were the way to go for me. Because of this I wanted the real deals in there (besides the fact that I think they look cooler than snot!). I didnt want to risk losing anything that I loved about the Gibson P90's because of the different coil shape/size.

 

[Micah]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

My squier tele custom 2 (p90) had screws though the pickup- which mounted it to a metal plate underneath in which mounted to the pickgaurd like a hb would. perhaps the same?

Thanks for the add! Hey--after posting this I found this kit I could buy for 12 bucks a pickup or use the idea to make my own on Reverend Guitars:

Scroll to the bottom of the page under Misc Parts and its the first one:
http://www.reverendguitars.com/reverend/guitar_bass_parts.html

The pictures are pretty interesting tho:
http://www.reverendguitars.com/reverend/images/demo_cos_sec_models/pickups/P90_bracket2.JPG

and:

http://www.reverendguitars.com/reverend/images/demo_cos_sec_models/pickups/P90_bracket1.JPG

and:

http://www.reverendguitars.com/reverend/images/demo_cos_sec_models/pickups/P90_bracket3.JPG

But I havent decided I want to mount them to the pickguard yet. I might try getting long screws that go into the wood for the best resonance response. We'll see

 

[Micah]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

I don't think you have the string clearance for dogears + covers on an SG---that mount was designed for archtops with a lot more clearance. You can't get one in the neck position on a LP Jr very easily without cutting it way down...

Definatly--I was actually wondering if the dogears would go under the cover and then you would have screws that attached them/adjusted them like a humbucker. But there would have to be a nut or something under them for threads. Thanks for the add!

 

[Micah]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

???

That thang is sick mayng!

 

[Micah]

Re: P90's in my 97 SG special

It fits fine in the bridge position; in the neck position, you gotta take out a lot of wood (hasta la vista to the neck joint) and the dogear cover has to get cut down...I've done it, but I don't recommend it. Gibson never made a 2 pickup solidbody with dogears on the LP/SG design...there's a reason.

Ahhh! I understand