Cory_Dylan
New member
I've always wondered about this. Patent Applied For... ...... ??? FOR WHAT!?? Seth Lover? Somebody wanna give me some history, or link me to some?
PAF. Patent Applied For what?
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korinastratkyle
New member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
Patent Applied For the hum canceling technology, I believe.
Patent Applied For the hum canceling technology, I believe.
WITH FULL DISTORTION
F. Hails Railsologist
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
i´m ****ing curious about that too
ahahahah
i´m ****ing curious about that too
ahahahah
Hellion
New member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
Waaaay back when electric guitars were new, all pickups available were single coil. Seth Lover was the mastermind behind the first pickup designed to limit or cancel EMF noise or hum, hence humbuckers. However, government being what it was then and is now, it took time to process patent applications. Gibson not wanting to lose time marketing their new find, at the same time mindful that there were heinous souls that might wish to steal their newfound technology, stuck "Patent Applied For", or PAF labels on these early humbuckers to inform any would be thief that there was an application for a patent in the works. The early PAFs are not terribly consistent with huge variations in number of turns on the bobbin, resistance and peak resonance, but they're still consistent enough in tone that they're quite valuable and desired to a degree. Does that help?
Waaaay back when electric guitars were new, all pickups available were single coil. Seth Lover was the mastermind behind the first pickup designed to limit or cancel EMF noise or hum, hence humbuckers. However, government being what it was then and is now, it took time to process patent applications. Gibson not wanting to lose time marketing their new find, at the same time mindful that there were heinous souls that might wish to steal their newfound technology, stuck "Patent Applied For", or PAF labels on these early humbuckers to inform any would be thief that there was an application for a patent in the works. The early PAFs are not terribly consistent with huge variations in number of turns on the bobbin, resistance and peak resonance, but they're still consistent enough in tone that they're quite valuable and desired to a degree. Does that help?
Cory_Dylan
New member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
So it was Patent applied for gibsons newfound technology (the humbucker)? How long did it take for the patent to go away?
So it was Patent applied for gibsons newfound technology (the humbucker)? How long did it take for the patent to go away?
Hellion
New member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
That would be right. The patent still remains, but after a certain amount of time, it became public domain. I don't know how long that would have been, maybe 20-25 years. It was the technology that had the patent, not necessarily the pickup itself.
Cory_Dylan said:
That would be right. The patent still remains, but after a certain amount of time, it became public domain. I don't know how long that would have been, maybe 20-25 years. It was the technology that had the patent, not necessarily the pickup itself.
Marinblues
New member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
18 years in the US.
20 in Europe.
18 years in the US.
20 in Europe.
Lightning
New member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
Patent office requires the sticker (the PAF sticker) be in place if the part is in production as patent ap is in process. Gibson PAFs first appeared on '56 Gold Tops (and other models…point is the year) and abused the sticker by leaving it in place till '61. I've heard of but never seen the sticker that came next but, supposably Gib used a patent numbered sticker with the wrong patent number to throw competitors off. The hand/machine winding process ended in '63. PAF stickers ended '60/61. So patent stickers started then and run as late as '74 (????? so I've seen...even a sticker and an embossed in the same guitar) but I have a '67 and '69 that are embossed.
From '56 to '63 windings are inconsistent (pickups range from 7 to 9.9k), after that 7 to 7.45 right up to around 74. '74 (when the L6S came out) Gibson must have changed machines again producing the standard HB at 7.6k and other models as low as 5.1k and very consistent about DC resistance. Not sure when the epoxies, and then the circuit board models appeared but they are pre Nashville (pre '88/'89). Nashville starts the 400 series. Oh there was a PAF that occurred late 80's early 90's, never measured one but may have been broadly placed on all 400 series until pats were granted for these PUs. PAF now appears on Classics,
Burstbuckers, and BB Pros and that's been awhile now and I'm sure once again Gib is abusing it. I think the sticker is cool so I don't mind, but it is about time Gibson fest up some numbers for those pickups. Maybe Gibson trade marked PAF? Evan got any ideas there?
Patent office requires the sticker (the PAF sticker) be in place if the part is in production as patent ap is in process. Gibson PAFs first appeared on '56 Gold Tops (and other models…point is the year) and abused the sticker by leaving it in place till '61. I've heard of but never seen the sticker that came next but, supposably Gib used a patent numbered sticker with the wrong patent number to throw competitors off. The hand/machine winding process ended in '63. PAF stickers ended '60/61. So patent stickers started then and run as late as '74 (????? so I've seen...even a sticker and an embossed in the same guitar) but I have a '67 and '69 that are embossed.
From '56 to '63 windings are inconsistent (pickups range from 7 to 9.9k), after that 7 to 7.45 right up to around 74. '74 (when the L6S came out) Gibson must have changed machines again producing the standard HB at 7.6k and other models as low as 5.1k and very consistent about DC resistance. Not sure when the epoxies, and then the circuit board models appeared but they are pre Nashville (pre '88/'89). Nashville starts the 400 series. Oh there was a PAF that occurred late 80's early 90's, never measured one but may have been broadly placed on all 400 series until pats were granted for these PUs. PAF now appears on Classics,
Burstbuckers, and BB Pros and that's been awhile now and I'm sure once again Gib is abusing it. I think the sticker is cool so I don't mind, but it is about time Gibson fest up some numbers for those pickups. Maybe Gibson trade marked PAF? Evan got any ideas there?
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S
seafoamer
Guest
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
I think when gibson went to pat # stickers the # was the patent # for the tailpiece to throw off competitors as someone said earlier.
I have a original paf in my 1957 ES175. I'd love to hear it in a solidbody but I'm too afraid to mess with the original wires, pots, knobs p-up, etc.
I think when gibson went to pat # stickers the # was the patent # for the tailpiece to throw off competitors as someone said earlier.
I have a original paf in my 1957 ES175. I'd love to hear it in a solidbody but I'm too afraid to mess with the original wires, pots, knobs p-up, etc.
Metalman_666
Well-known member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
so was Seth Lover working for Gibson, and he wound the first humbuckers? And weren't there designs for humbuckers as early as the 30's, but they were wound wrong or something like that?
so was Seth Lover working for Gibson, and he wound the first humbuckers? And weren't there designs for humbuckers as early as the 30's, but they were wound wrong or something like that?
Lightning
New member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
I read that on the internet somewhere. Horseshoe shaped mag, two coils, but missed it by not reverse winding the second coil. It's left to speculate if it was even an atempt to make a humbucker or a 2 coil PU. Kinda like crop circles LOL. You know...everyone had a different take on what the aliens were trying to say. Maybe the horse shoe mag guy was really that close and...just couldn't push it through. Remember the telephone was an accident.
I read that on the internet somewhere. Horseshoe shaped mag, two coils, but missed it by not reverse winding the second coil. It's left to speculate if it was even an atempt to make a humbucker or a 2 coil PU. Kinda like crop circles LOL. You know...everyone had a different take on what the aliens were trying to say. Maybe the horse shoe mag guy was really that close and...just couldn't push it through. Remember the telephone was an accident.
Metalman_666
Well-known member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
was it? wow.... Alexander Graham Bell is just one of the morons who managed to invent something good by mistake :smack:
Lightning said:
was it? wow.... Alexander Graham Bell is just one of the morons who managed to invent something good by mistake :smack:
Lightning
New member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
ATT stands for American Telephone and Telegraph. AG Bell was building the telegraph circuit. Watson was at the speaker end. Bell spilt a glass of water on the wires connected to the switch. The mineral suspension in the water conducted electricity. When Bell said Mother ****er Watson heard him through the speaker. The molecular membrain of the puddle of water recieved varing pressure (Sound Pressure Level) which resulted in varing resistance of the mineral suspension. Carbon dust was substituted for water and the first microphone was born. The dial was not added to the telephone until '52.
The first guitar pickup was technology stolen from the generator...so who do you want to give that credit to...Tesla?
I think the Piezo is Bell's compression technology to the best I can figure. Does anyone know?
What was this thread about anyhow...Oh yea...PAF and what....
Let me drop another bomb on ya...Bell labs accidentally invented humbucking before Seth. I don't know if Seth stole the technology or if he was unaware of Bell Labs discovery but bell Labs didn't patent it.
All copper wire phone and data circuits are twisted pair circuits. Twisted pair works better than shielded (coax). Humbuckers are humbucking with or without the shield (cover).
I mean no disrespect to Seth or any tring to figure out crop circles. This is progress, in a perfect world there would be no patents (just shared knowledge) or hunger. Tesla dided poor, I think Seth did too (I would like to find out that I'm wrong on that one).
Weather seth invented humbucking or not he was the one that applied one technology to another technology to give us a humbucking pickup.
later Chuck
PS Why did I just say all of that?
ATT stands for American Telephone and Telegraph. AG Bell was building the telegraph circuit. Watson was at the speaker end. Bell spilt a glass of water on the wires connected to the switch. The mineral suspension in the water conducted electricity. When Bell said Mother ****er Watson heard him through the speaker. The molecular membrain of the puddle of water recieved varing pressure (Sound Pressure Level) which resulted in varing resistance of the mineral suspension. Carbon dust was substituted for water and the first microphone was born. The dial was not added to the telephone until '52.
The first guitar pickup was technology stolen from the generator...so who do you want to give that credit to...Tesla?
I think the Piezo is Bell's compression technology to the best I can figure. Does anyone know?
What was this thread about anyhow...Oh yea...PAF and what....
Let me drop another bomb on ya...Bell labs accidentally invented humbucking before Seth. I don't know if Seth stole the technology or if he was unaware of Bell Labs discovery but bell Labs didn't patent it.
All copper wire phone and data circuits are twisted pair circuits. Twisted pair works better than shielded (coax). Humbuckers are humbucking with or without the shield (cover).
I mean no disrespect to Seth or any tring to figure out crop circles. This is progress, in a perfect world there would be no patents (just shared knowledge) or hunger. Tesla dided poor, I think Seth did too (I would like to find out that I'm wrong on that one).
Weather seth invented humbucking or not he was the one that applied one technology to another technology to give us a humbucking pickup.
later Chuck
PS Why did I just say all of that?
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
Because it was nice info and thanks.
Because it was nice info and thanks.
Cory_Dylan
New member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
thanks lightning, cool stuff. i still wonder why it was named the PAF. if it's because it's patent applied for whatever... then everything that has a patent would be named PAF. idk... it's late, im tired... basically a bump
thanks lightning, cool stuff. i still wonder why it was named the PAF. if it's because it's patent applied for whatever... then everything that has a patent would be named PAF. idk... it's late, im tired... basically a bump
Lightning
New member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
Cory...Gibson didn't name it...we the players did. Just like the number on the sticker ('61) we call it patent sticker, and the one after that has the patent embossed we call T Top cause it may have 1,2, or no T's showing (but we just know they are there (if not showing there on the under side of the coil)). Dimarzio called their copy (first year production '74) PAF. It did not have the sticker on the bottom so patent must have already been granted. My question...did DMZ copywrite or trade mark the term PAF? See DMZ stole the term from us...the players. LOL
Cory...Gibson didn't name it...we the players did. Just like the number on the sticker ('61) we call it patent sticker, and the one after that has the patent embossed we call T Top cause it may have 1,2, or no T's showing (but we just know they are there (if not showing there on the under side of the coil)). Dimarzio called their copy (first year production '74) PAF. It did not have the sticker on the bottom so patent must have already been granted. My question...did DMZ copywrite or trade mark the term PAF? See DMZ stole the term from us...the players. LOL
Lightning
New member
Re: PAF. Patent Applied For what?
My first 5 Fender amps included a schematic diagram glued to the inside of the cabinet with Western Electric's name and patent #. Western Electric was Bell's telephone engineering and manufacturing division. They designed the amplifier to be used for commercial paging applications.
Fender paid WE royalties for the use of their schematic. Marshall not effected by patents copied Fender but chose different components locally available which gives Marshall's there distinct tone.
Edison is credited with the invention of the tube but he got the idea from _____(dag can't remember).
Bell Labs invented the internet in '52 for the CIA. It was called an encrypted circuit. Today we call that encryption TCPIP. Bell Labs also invented UNIX.
Tesla invented a bomb...it didn't work. Bell Labs builds bombs with the wire wound resistors they invented...they work.
Eagle Pitcher has a patent on the batteries that were put in scuds that didn't hold their voltage and caused the loss of innocent lives. EP knew the batteries would fail.
I don't work for Bell. I designed some circuits when I was young, I gave them to a manufacturer who got patents on them (I just wanted someone to build them). They used Cuban labor, Corona Dope, and ice trays to build them.
I didn't invent the Ice Cube (JHD) but that's where the enclosure idea came from.
My first 5 Fender amps included a schematic diagram glued to the inside of the cabinet with Western Electric's name and patent #. Western Electric was Bell's telephone engineering and manufacturing division. They designed the amplifier to be used for commercial paging applications.
Fender paid WE royalties for the use of their schematic. Marshall not effected by patents copied Fender but chose different components locally available which gives Marshall's there distinct tone.
Edison is credited with the invention of the tube but he got the idea from _____(dag can't remember).
Bell Labs invented the internet in '52 for the CIA. It was called an encrypted circuit. Today we call that encryption TCPIP. Bell Labs also invented UNIX.
Tesla invented a bomb...it didn't work. Bell Labs builds bombs with the wire wound resistors they invented...they work.
Eagle Pitcher has a patent on the batteries that were put in scuds that didn't hold their voltage and caused the loss of innocent lives. EP knew the batteries would fail.
I don't work for Bell. I designed some circuits when I was young, I gave them to a manufacturer who got patents on them (I just wanted someone to build them). They used Cuban labor, Corona Dope, and ice trays to build them.
I didn't invent the Ice Cube (JHD) but that's where the enclosure idea came from.
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