Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

B

Burnhaven

New member
I know I'm going to like these new pickups, but I am having to work at it a bit. 74 Strat with newish Warmoth maple neck, standard trem bridge locked down. Lil 59 Neck, Duckbucker middle, JB JR Bridge
First I lowered the pickups to between 4 and 5 mm from the strings ( which are D'Addario Nickel wound 11-49) .

Then I found I like the two tone controls at 4 or less. When I say "like" I mean the tone was not objectionable. At higher tone knob settings the G and B strings were just in your face nasty. Note: all of the patches I use have a low cut around 150 hz ( low shelf/ high pass) and a high cut around 8 khz ( high shelf/lowpass)

This was getting me close. I seem to run the middle/bridge combination with coil split on the Jb Jr 90% of the time so far.

Parametric EQ settings so far: I arrive at these by setting a narrow Q ( higher value on 1-10 scale), running the gain all the way up and sweeping frequencies looking for nasty tones. When I find it, I just drop the gain into negative territory.


Frequency............ Q factor............ Cut decibels
250.................... 6.................... -4.4
430.......... .......... 6.................... -4.4
2 khz.................... 6.......... .......... -4.4


There is a website where you can plug in the Q factor and frequency to get the rough range of frequencies actually affected by a given EQ setting. For example on the cut at 430 hz
Lower cutoff frequency =395.657 Hz
Upper cutoff frequency f2 =467.324 Hz


D’Addario XL Nickel Wound Electric Guitar Strings, Medium Blues Jazz Rock Gauge – Round Wound with Nickel-Plated Steel for Long Lasting Distinctive Bright Tone and Excellent Intonation – 11-49
 
Re: Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

It seems like there's not all that much to add as you didn't really ask anything and appear to have already reached your desired outcome.
 
Re: Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

A few comments:

#1 Can you post the link to the web site? Sounds cool

#2 Strat + heavy strings might be the culprit. String gauge could be interacting with the new pups output factor. That + Strat scale....

#3 are you using 500k or 250 vol/tone pots? 500k might the issue, notice you are dropping 250k and up?

#4 This is the tough one...maybe those pups don't work with that neck/body....so try all you like you'll jump through flaming invisible parametric hoops and still not be fully satisfied.
 
Re: Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

#1 Can you post the link to the web site? Sounds cool


Look for the box shown in the photo on that page.

Annotation 2019-07-18 144123.jpg

parametric frequency site



#2 Strat + heavy strings might be the culprit. String gauge could be interacting with the new pups output factor. That + Strat scale....

#3 are you using 500k or 250 vol/tone pots? 500k might the issue, notice you are dropping 250k and up?


Should be 250k pots https://920dcustom.com/products/fender-stratocaster-strat-loaded-pickguard-duncan-everything-axe-w-2-toggles

#4 This is the tough one...maybe those pups don't work with that neck/body....so try all you like you'll jump through flaming invisible parametric hoops and still not be fully satisfied.

I think I'm about 90% of the way to where I want to be now. I'm sure I'll be experimenting with the EQs and pickup heights for a while yet. The video at the 920d site shows a demo using a strat, so I have to think it can be done. It just wasn't the slap it in and go I thought it might be.
 
Re: Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

Single coil size humbuckers aren't really the most superior pickup design. They are what they are. If you like that hum free, punchy, gainy sound that can still be made somewhat stratty then you gotta fiddle with some things and accept the compromise.
 
Re: Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

I get that and of course using a line 6 Helix adds a whole other level of complexity to the tone structure, but what would you say of the adaptations I've made so far? am I on the right track or is there some part of it that you would leave out completely? I think Seymour Duncan has been selling these particular pickups and also this configuration for quite a while and they wouldn't be pushing it or advertising it anymore if the majority of people are finding it not useful
 
Re: Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

Maybe it would make sense to have a prescence control for the mids centred around 1kHz.
Then select lows and highs at 330Hz and 3kHz respectively.
In the case the filter Q is too high, so maybe halve it to Q of 3 or lower.
 
Re: Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

Burnhaven said:
I know I'm going to like these new pickups, but I am having to work at it a bit. 74 Strat with newish Warmoth maple neck, standard trem bridge locked down. Lil 59 Neck, Duckbucker middle, JB JR Bridge
First I lowered the pickups to between 4 and 5 mm from the strings ( which are D'Addario Nickel wound 11-49) .

Then I found I like the two tone controls at 4 or less. When I say "like" I mean the tone was not objectionable. At higher tone knob settings the G and B strings were just in your face nasty. Note: all of the patches I use have a low cut around 150 hz ( low shelf/ high pass) and a high cut around 8 khz ( high shelf/lowpass)

This was getting me close. I seem to run the middle/bridge combination with coil split on the Jb Jr 90% of the time so far.

Parametric EQ settings so far: I arrive at these by setting a narrow Q ( higher value on 1-10 scale), running the gain all the way up and sweeping frequencies looking for nasty tones. When I find it, I just drop the gain into negative territory.


Frequency............ Q factor............ Cut decibels
250.................... 6.................... -4.4
430.......... .......... 6.................... -4.4
2 khz.................... 6.......... .......... -4.4


There is a website where you can plug in the Q factor and frequency to get the rough range of frequencies actually affected by a given EQ setting. For example on the cut at 430 hz
Lower cutoff frequency =395.657 Hz
Upper cutoff frequency f2 =467.324 Hz


D’Addario XL Nickel Wound Electric Guitar Strings, Medium Blues Jazz Rock Gauge – Round Wound with Nickel-Plated Steel for Long Lasting Distinctive Bright Tone and Excellent Intonation – 11-49
Click to expand...

Thx for sharing. :-)

With digital modeling, I've gone through a pre-EQ / post-EQ odyssey a decade ago. I've also developed an array of specific parametric EQ settings for Roland GK guitar modeling, in order to make it closer to the modeling in my Variax. so I understand and appreciate your efforts.

Now, I've also passed much time to modify pickups and passive electronics in guitars, for me or for other people. So I'd tend to think that basic mods are not to discard: with a set of given pickups and knowing that all PU's don't bond with all guitars, there's dozens of adaptative experiments to try when it comes to...
-pots resistance,
-cable capacitance,
-various split/series/parallel wirings,
-external components / networks in parallel or in series with the PU's - Q filters or simple inductors, passive diodes arrangments, capacitors in parallel or in series with this or that PU if not between the coils, in the "fat tap" fashion... non limitative list, depending on the goal of the operator. See all the mods and wiring tricks published here by Artietoo, for example, and you might already have a few interesting ideas to try. :-)

Some of my guitars include permanently enabled or switchable passive electronic devices, designed specifically to avoid the use of external EQing.

After all this rambling, if I can share something myself, here it is: https://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/

EDIT - Looks like a part of your problem might be in pointy resonant peaks around 2khz, hence the interest to consider the inductive/capacitive specs involved and how to tweak them from the start (that's the reason behind my answer).

EDIT 2 - Checked my archives: a little 59 neck has a P90 style inductance (between 5H and 6H). A LJB should lean towards 8H like the big JB. With a typical/standard guitar cable (9 ft, 450pF of capacitance), such inductances should set the "natural" resonant peaks of these two pickups just above or below 2khz... FWIW (the Duckbucker being another beast with an inductance around 1H and a Rz around 4500hz).
The resonant peak of a pickup is what a tone pot flattens just before to bring in another resonant frequency due to the tone cap... Hence your satisfaction when the tone control is around 4/10.
If it was for me, I'd search a way to locate the resonant frequency of my LJB and little 59 elsewhere in the audio spectrum (coils wired in parallel rather than in series, OR pickups in parallel with an external LR filter, OR lower/higher stray capacitance thanks to another cable or to some low value caps... Rough draft to be continued according to the tone desired).


Good luck in your tone quest!
 
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Re: Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

freefrog said:
Thx for sharing. :-)

With digital modeling, I've gone through a pre-EQ / post-EQ odyssey a decade ago. I've also developed an array of specific parametric EQ settings for Roland GK guitar modeling, in order to make it closer to the modeling in my Variax. so I understand and appreciate your efforts.

Now, I've also passed much time to modify pickups and passive electronics in guitars, for me or for other people. So I'd tend to think that basic mods are not to discard: with a set of given pickups and knowing that all PU's don't bond with all guitars, there's dozens of adaptative experiments to try when it comes to...
-pots resistance,
-cable capacitance,
-various split/series/parallel wirings,
-external components / networks in parallel or in series with the PU's - Q filters or simple inductors, passive diodes arrangments, capacitors in parallel or in series with this or that PU if not between the coils, in the "fat tap" fashion... non limitative list, depending on the goal of the operator. See all the mods and wiring tricks published here by Artietoo, for example, and you might already have a few interesting ideas to try. :-)

Some of my guitars include permanently enabled or switchable passive electronic devices, designed specifically to avoid the use of external EQing.

After all this rambling, if I can share something myself, here it is: https://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/

EDIT - Looks like a part of your problem might be in pointy resonant peaks around 2khz, hence the interest to consider the inductive/capacitive specs involved and how to tweak them from the start (that's the reason behind my answer).

EDIT 2 - Checked my archives: a little 59 neck has a P90 style inductance (between 5H and 6H). A LJB should lean towards 8H like the big JB. With a typical/standard guitar cable (9 ft, 450pF of capacitance), such inductances should set the "natural" resonant peaks of these two pickups just above or below 2khz... FWIW (the Duckbucker being another beast with an inductance around 1H and a Rz around 4500hz).
The resonant peak of a pickup is what a tone pot flattens just before to bring in another resonant frequency due to the tone cap... Hence your satisfaction when the tone control is around 4/10.
If it was for me, I'd search a way to locate the resonant frequency of my LJB and little 59 elsewhere in the audio spectrum (coils wired in parallel rather than in series, OR pickups in parallel with an external LR filter, OR lower/higher stray capacitance thanks to another cable or to some low value caps... Rough draft to be continued according to the tone desired).


Good luck in your tone quest!
Click to expand...

Thanks for that response. Would you suggest adjustments in pickup height and pole pieces with a modeler patch on the clean side --- I've been using one that has a little overdrive on it which really did reveal spikes on the G and B strings. It's hard to describe the unwanted tone but perhaps it is the resonant peak problem you mentioned. I could even just run the guitar straight into my FRFR powered speaker for initial setup, skipping the Helix altogether.
 
Re: Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

Any reason to think my choice of strings is influencing the new pickups in a bad way?

The gauges in this electric string set include: Plain Steel .011, .014, .018, Nickel Wound .028, .038, .049

D’Addario XL Nickel Wound Electric Guitar Strings, Medium Blues Jazz Rock Gauge – Round Wound with Nickel-Plated Steel for Long Lasting Distinctive Bright Tone and Excellent Intonation – 11-49
 
Re: Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

Burnhaven said:
Thanks for that response. Would you suggest adjustments in pickup height and pole pieces with a modeler patch on the clean side --- I've been using one that has a little overdrive on it which really did reveal spikes on the G and B strings. It's hard to describe the unwanted tone but perhaps it is the resonant peak problem you mentioned. I could even just run the guitar straight into my FRFR powered speaker for initial setup, skipping the Helix altogether.
Click to expand...

Fine tuning on pickups and their poles are always a good idea IMHO, since the acoustic resonance of your guitar necessarily creates a bit of “comb filtering” along the spectrum. Pickups settings are there to compensate that.

Now, with any digital modeler (including the Helix), this initial comb filtering is complicated by the specs of the amp modeled AND by the sonic character of the cab used to amplify it.

IOW:
-your PU’s (as any magnetic pickup) have resonant peaks;
-your guitar as a whole has an acoustic frequency response with peaks and dips;
-any amp simulation reproduces the peak and dips of a real amp+cab;
-your powered speaker, as any FRFR rig (even the most hi-fi of them) has ALSO peaks and dips along the spectrum…

Either these peaks and dips annulate / correct each other, either they stack upon each other and it creates dead spot + nasty peaks – unless you have a sound engineer to correct that with dedicated EQ’s.

I’ve struggled with such issues during years, FWIW.

So, I'm not sure that setting your PU's through a full range rig would solve the issues encountered with the pickups through the Helix + powered cab. But why not?

Anyway: with digital modeling, I tend to correct unrequested comb filtering with post EQing rather than pre EQing (unless I'm working on guitar modeling, which is something else). YMMV. :-)

FOOTNOTE with an example about FRFR systems being not that transparent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNuJvdKda-M
 
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Re: Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

Burnhaven said:
According to the data sheet at 920D, this Everything Axe loaded pickguard comes with 250k pots.


View attachment 99908

Dylan Pickups on resonant peak

https://youtu.be/ZCzZfKY2QM0


Link to Seymour pickup chart ( the EQ bass/middle/treble section may have been updated since this )

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/product-news/pickup-comparison-chart
Click to expand...

My answer will be shorter than above 'cause I'm busy right now.

The resonant frequencies in your chart are those of the mentioned pickups measured DIRECTLY on the coils and NOT through a typical guitar cable. The longer the cable, the lowest in the spectrum is located the resonant peak. It's to illustrate this idea that I had shared the link towards this page:
https://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/
Check the picture 14 and keep in mind that a guitar cable is nothing else than a kind of long tubular capacitor (for example, 45 fT of typical cable = the same than a 2200pF capacitor and the resonant frequency shifts down accordingly).

So, I'll repeat myself: through a typical 9fT cable (equivalent to a 450pF capacitor), the Rz of a LJB and Lil' 59 IS just above or just below 2khz.

If this idea needs to be illustrated, I'll post some resonant peaks that we've measured here with lab gear on real pickups, including a JB. Now, please, consider that my intention is not to sound "argumentative": I was just trying to help. :-)

Now, back to busy life. See you later!
 
Re: Parametric EQ on the Everything Axe combo

Thanks for all the help. I decided to try a Helix patch that was empty. Good start. Pickups were raised a little closer to "spec" but still lower than 1/8th. Haven't touched the pole pieces yet. As I added back the usual collection of drive effects, amp model, impulse response etc. the harshness returned and seems to be mainly a combination of treble and presence in the amp. Treble cut and bass cut in the drive effect contributes as does the choice of IR. But the base tone from all pickup combinations into an empty preset is just fine. JB JR alone in dual coil mode is a little middy/nasaly but it's supposed to be and much can be done in the Helix to remedy that.

Still may futz with pole pieces later. Oh and I discovered that the lower tone control on the guitar controls the bridge Pickup only. The other one handles middle and neck. I didn't realize that. :smack: At the moment both tone control are around 9
 
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