Pearly gates, cover vs no cover

[gimmieinfo]

I find sometimes cover sound better depending on the guitar, other times no. What do those of you who've used both covered and uncovered pearly gates in a LP think? Whats your experience with this? I know generally how HBs differ generally with and without, but specifically looking to hear about PGs in a LP. Sure, i'm nit picking but humor me. :1: Just like to hear thoughts before i decide to defile my poor gates set.

 

[jeremy]

i tend to prefer uncovered neck pups in a lp, but sometimes a covered bridge is nice. i currently have an uncovered set of pearlys, but ive put a cover on the bridge pup before and liked it

 

[Masta' C]

Is there an effect? Yes. Is it largely negligible? Yes.

By removing the covers, you will see a minute increase in volume right around the resonant peak (1-2 db), but that's about it.

With Duncans and their high-quality nickel-silver covers, it's not really worth doing if you're looking for a noticeable sonic change.

 

[freefrog]

Sorry if I sound like a broken record but it depends on the cover (and pots, and guitar and so on).

Measuring the inductance at a not too low frequency is a good way to guess the quality of a cover: if the inductance drops once the pickup covered, it shows eddy currents coming from a non magnetically transparent cover, with the related effects (squashed and slower transients, duller harmonics).

That said, a PG should suffer less than other pickups of such a thing, since it has a narrow pointy resonant peak (a higher Q factor).

 

[gimmieinfo]

Thanks, i didn't want to mention my true motivation because i didn't want to influence replies. But my motivation was to see if anyone mentioned transparency and dynamics. I wanted to see if anyone mentioned uncovered PG as being more open and transparent. No one did which makes me think i should leave them as is. But thats part of what i seem to notice with uncovered and is also my #1 concern as tone goes. I'm a life long fender guy with a lifetime of modding and tweaking them so i'm not familiar enough with gibsons to be as dead nuts sure of whats what like i am with fenders, so i just thought i'd see what you all say. Thanks.

 

[freefrog]

But my motivation was to see if anyone mentioned transparency and dynamics. I wanted to see if anyone mentioned uncovered PG as being more open and transparent. No one did

Well, when I mention "eddy currents coming from a non magnetically transparent cover, with the related effects (squashed and slower transients, duller harmonics)", it has to do with transparency and dynamics...

ANY cover "compresses" the attack to some extent. Sometimes it's not really perceptible but electrically, it's impossible to avoid - unless the cover is made of plastic, wood etc.

I'll search in my archives if I've something about covered vs uncovered neck PG.

More later, maybe.

 

[gimmieinfo]

Well, when I mention "eddy currents coming from a non magnetically transparent cover, with the related effects (squashed and slower transients, duller harmonics)", it has to do with transparency and dynamics...

ANY cover "compresses" the attack to some extent. Sometimes it's not really perceptible but electrically, it's impossible to avoid - unless the cover is made of plastic, wood etc.

I'll search in my archives if I've something about covered vs uncovered neck PG.

More later, maybe.

Hmmmm....back into consideration. Don't get me wrong, i love my LP and the PGs, but the nature of those is that they are never going to have the same dynamic response of a fender, nor do i expect it to. But any improvement in that direction would be welcome. The only thing is whether or not removing them would make enough improvement in that direction to make it worth while. Plus i much prefer the look of covers, tho zebra uncovered is pretty nice too if not quite as nice,

 

[Masta' C]

SD uses good quality nickel-silver covers. They are the most "transparent" material you can get. Not perfectly transparent, but close.

Unlike other metals, a good quality nickel-silver won't alter the shape or location of the resonant peak, it will just reduce the existing resonant peak ever so slightly. It's not changing the tone of the pickup or damping dynamics to any meaningful degree.

Like Freefrog mentioned, the resonant peak on the PGs isn't as wide as some pickups, so only a relatively small band of frequencies are being affected by this subtle change. All in all, there's not a particularly good reason to remove the covers unless you simply prefer the uncovered look.

 

[gimmieinfo]

Thanks.

 

[jeremy]

its a very subtle difference for the pg in my experience. i can hear/feel a difference, i think, but its not much. ive come to like the look of a zebra neck pup with a covered bridge, like this.

 

[Masta' C]

That's a nice looking guitar, Jeremy!

 

[freefrog]

The only thing is whether or not removing them would make enough improvement in that direction to make it worth while.

The last PG1N that I've mounted (in an Explorer) sounded a wee bit clearer without cover.

Now, it was a PG1N with black cover, like this one: https://reverb.com/item/41769056-se...-pearly-gates-black-neck-pickup-w-black-cover

I've not lab tested this cover but I suppose that its apparently thicker finish is a tad less transparent magnetically than on a NS one (conventional NS Duncan covers being rather transparent, as mentioned by Masta C').

IMO, shorter screw poles might be interesting to try as an alternative solution if you don't want to pull off the covers.

 

[gimmieinfo]

The last PG1N that I've mounted (in an Explorer) sounded a wee bit clearer without cover.

Now, it was a PG1N with black cover, like this one: https://reverb.com/item/41769056-se...-pearly-gates-black-neck-pickup-w-black-cover

I've not lab tested this cover but I suppose that its apparently thicker finish is a tad less transparent magnetically than on a NS one (conventional NS Duncan covers being rather transparent, as mentioned by Masta C').

IMO, shorter screw poles might be interesting to try as an alternative solution if you don't want to pull off the covers.

Funny you say that because while not shorter i thought of trying the screws from the stock pickups (classic 57s) in the PGs a few days ago but i found the threads were a different size. But i have read the screw's carbon content makes a difference so i figured why not try.

 

[freefrog]

Yep, carbon content of screw poles makes a difference but "size matters" too.

Screw poles are easy to clip with good cutting pliers if necessary, BTW.

 

[Aceman]

Technically? Yes
Practically? Meh
Personally? Entirely an aesthetic choice

Full Disclosure: I have no covered PG's, out of 6.

 

[freefrog]

Not found in my archives the comparison that I searched between covered and uncovered PG1N . I know it's somewhere but I've too many data and not enough brain cells.

Now, let's share below the response of a same pickup uncovered VS fitted with a cheap and bad cover (of the same kind than those mounted on Epiphone humbuckers, for instance, but I've already found the same crappy things on more expensive PU's).

One pic is about the pickup played in single notes direct to the board. The next one shows two electrically induced responses obtained in the same conditions... These pics should be their own comments. FWIW.

 

[jeremy]

That's a nice looking guitar, Jeremy!

thanks! ill also mention the more gain you use, the less i notice a difference.

 

[uOpt]

I liken the effect of a cover to switching from 500k pots to 250k pots. I know not everybody agrees with that.

 

[Masta' C]

I liken the effect of a cover to switching from 500k pots to 250k pots. I know not everybody agrees with that.

A "cheap" cover, sure, but the covers SD uses don't cause anything like changing pot values from 500K to 250K

 

[OldNewb]

I always thought of covers as an aesthetic thing, and I'm not sure it matters that much.

I had uncovered Pearly Gates pickups in a Les Paul, and to my ears they perfectly matched the I'm Bad; I'm Nationwide tone (which I think was covered PAFs on the original).

I guess like above, they could be measured to show a difference, but I'm not sure I'd be able to notice with my bare ears.