the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Somebody please put these pups head to head for me. I would LOVE to hear form Lew and or Dr. Barlo on this one
Thanks
Guys
Thanks
Guys
Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
- Thread starter the guy who invented fire
- Start date
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
I'll compare the Seth and Antiquity as I have tried neck versions of them both in the same guitar: Hamer '92 Sunburst...like a Studio Custom but in '92 they still called it a Sunburst.
(My Pearly Gates is in a Stratocaster...very differant guitar than the Hamer)
IMO, what the Antiquity has going for it is a pronounced but slightly hollow, midrange that gives a sense of complexity and space to the tone. How can the mids be both pronounced and hollow? :smack: I don't know! But that's what my sense of the Antqiutiy humbucker is. It's like the mids are pronounced, but textured like a comb.
The Seth Lover had a fatter tone in the same guitar. Thicker in the mids. Less hollow and less complex and multidimensional...though it still has plenty of those qualities.
I'm not going to compare the PG as I've only used it in a Strat and to be honest, I'm thinking of putting something else in that ax and trying it in my Les Paul instead.
I'll compare the Seth and Antiquity as I have tried neck versions of them both in the same guitar: Hamer '92 Sunburst...like a Studio Custom but in '92 they still called it a Sunburst.
(My Pearly Gates is in a Stratocaster...very differant guitar than the Hamer)
IMO, what the Antiquity has going for it is a pronounced but slightly hollow, midrange that gives a sense of complexity and space to the tone. How can the mids be both pronounced and hollow? :smack: I don't know! But that's what my sense of the Antqiutiy humbucker is. It's like the mids are pronounced, but textured like a comb.
The Seth Lover had a fatter tone in the same guitar. Thicker in the mids. Less hollow and less complex and multidimensional...though it still has plenty of those qualities.
I'm not going to compare the PG as I've only used it in a Strat and to be honest, I'm thinking of putting something else in that ax and trying it in my Les Paul instead.
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the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
Thanks Lew...I recently put a set of PG's in my Gibson Moderne and I love it, I am just kind of wondering what might be closest to another set of Pearlys w/o the little extra sizzle in the top end(for a different guitar)...I'm thinking about maybe a set of Antiquitys.
Lewguitar said:
Thanks Lew...I recently put a set of PG's in my Gibson Moderne and I love it, I am just kind of wondering what might be closest to another set of Pearlys w/o the little extra sizzle in the top end(for a different guitar)...I'm thinking about maybe a set of Antiquitys.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
That's kind of my take on the PG too. Sort of like a sizzlier Seth or Antiquity. But not overly so...just a little. Go for the Antiquitys. I've never heard an Antiquity I didn't like. I'd have put an Antiquity in my Hamer Monoco if the cover wasn't aged. Lew
That's kind of my take on the PG too. Sort of like a sizzlier Seth or Antiquity. But not overly so...just a little. Go for the Antiquitys. I've never heard an Antiquity I didn't like. I'd have put an Antiquity in my Hamer Monoco if the cover wasn't aged. Lew
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the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
So would yousay that the Antiquity is more open and has more bloom that the Seth? I really am looking for a real open/warm clean tone and something that is real smooth/creamy when distorted. I am really thinking about another set of PG's but the guitar is a little brighter than the Moderne when unplugged and I think theat the PG might be a little too sharp in the top.
Lewguitar said:
So would yousay that the Antiquity is more open and has more bloom that the Seth? I really am looking for a real open/warm clean tone and something that is real smooth/creamy when distorted. I am really thinking about another set of PG's but the guitar is a little brighter than the Moderne when unplugged and I think theat the PG might be a little too sharp in the top.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
I will have to take the covers off...the guitar in question has old/well work gold hardware.
BTW..is there an Antiquity II Humbucker?
Lewguitar said:
I will have to take the covers off...the guitar in question has old/well work gold hardware.
BTW..is there an Antiquity II Humbucker?
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
What's your take on the PG's? How would describe them compared to other humbuckers you're familar with? Compare them to a 59 or others if you can.
Not officially. I'm sure MJ would make you one or you could put an a5 magnet in an Antiquity.
What's your take on the PG's? How would describe them compared to other humbuckers you're familar with? Compare them to a 59 or others if you can.
Not officially. I'm sure MJ would make you one or you could put an a5 magnet in an Antiquity.
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the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
Cool...thaks Lew. I am about to put a set in the guitar (APH neck and a CC bridge) and see how it does, if that is still not right I'll go the Antiqity road.
You guys feel free to keep going, I really wanna get lots of opinions.
Lewguitar said:
Cool...thaks Lew. I am about to put a set in the guitar (APH neck and a CC bridge) and see how it does, if that is still not right I'll go the Antiqity road.
You guys feel free to keep going, I really wanna get lots of opinions.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
Doc Barlo and BachToRock, are really the men to ask when it comes to humbuckers. To be honest, I much prefer single coils.
I love soloing with a bridge humbucker but all neck humbuckers sound kind of muddy to me when I play rythym...which is why I play my Fender guitars and my humbucker guitars don't see much use.
I got out my Les Paul for the first time in months the other day. After doing all these tests and playing with the Antiquity Surfers in my Strats, the Les Paul really sounded muddy and flat to me by comparism...even though it's not. It's a great guitar.
Doc Barlo and BachToRock, are really the men to ask when it comes to humbuckers. To be honest, I much prefer single coils.
I love soloing with a bridge humbucker but all neck humbuckers sound kind of muddy to me when I play rythym...which is why I play my Fender guitars and my humbucker guitars don't see much use.
I got out my Les Paul for the first time in months the other day. After doing all these tests and playing with the Antiquity Surfers in my Strats, the Les Paul really sounded muddy and flat to me by comparism...even though it's not. It's a great guitar.
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the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
I can't say enough good things about the PG's! They have the little top end sizzle but to me they are much more open and airy that a 59. I got the bridge first and loved then a few days later the neck came (both from a trade) and I dropped that in and I was more impressed with the neck than I was with the bridge...and I love the bridge! The PGn is so far my favorite neck pickup. Together they have a very smooth tone that I am still amazed with. The PG is a tad brighter that a 59n (it's not the ice pick some people say it is), and it got a nasal quality that is not overpowering and gives the bridge pup a very cool tone on both the plain strings around the 8th to 15 fret area and the wound strings real low. Harmonics just seem to fall off the strings, and the PG has a more complex open sound in the neck that the 59.
Lewguitar said:
I can't say enough good things about the PG's! They have the little top end sizzle but to me they are much more open and airy that a 59. I got the bridge first and loved then a few days later the neck came (both from a trade) and I dropped that in and I was more impressed with the neck than I was with the bridge...and I love the bridge! The PGn is so far my favorite neck pickup. Together they have a very smooth tone that I am still amazed with. The PG is a tad brighter that a 59n (it's not the ice pick some people say it is), and it got a nasal quality that is not overpowering and gives the bridge pup a very cool tone on both the plain strings around the 8th to 15 fret area and the wound strings real low. Harmonics just seem to fall off the strings, and the PG has a more complex open sound in the neck that the 59.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
I usally dont use neck bucker too much because a lot of them are real muddy...this is not the case with a PG neck!
We talked once about the Tel;e ala strat neck pickup and about how it is one of the only tele neck pups that you can reeally use...the PGn is the same deal. I love it!
Lewguitar said:
I usally dont use neck bucker too much because a lot of them are real muddy...this is not the case with a PG neck!
We talked once about the Tel;e ala strat neck pickup and about how it is one of the only tele neck pups that you can reeally use...the PGn is the same deal. I love it!
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
That is exactly my perception of the PGN too. Tho I'm not sure if it's actually brighter than a 59N or if it just has a little less bass and that makes it seem to be brighter than a 59N. Mine is in a Strat too, and that's a brighter guitar, which is why I was hesitant to compare it to the Ant or Seth in my Hamer guitars. I'm thinking of putting one in my Les Paul because the neck Tom Holmes HB I have in it (awesome as it is!) is still not clear enough in the mids for my tastes and I want a pickup with a little more top end than the Antiquity or Seth.
Lew
the guy who invented fire said:
That is exactly my perception of the PGN too. Tho I'm not sure if it's actually brighter than a 59N or if it just has a little less bass and that makes it seem to be brighter than a 59N. Mine is in a Strat too, and that's a brighter guitar, which is why I was hesitant to compare it to the Ant or Seth in my Hamer guitars. I'm thinking of putting one in my Les Paul because the neck Tom Holmes HB I have in it (awesome as it is!) is still not clear enough in the mids for my tastes and I want a pickup with a little more top end than the Antiquity or Seth.
Lew
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the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
I've heard good thing about the Tom Holmes but I have also heard that they are very close to vintage PAF's...if so the neck is a little muddy! I think that a PGn is just a bright and articulate as a Jazz neck but I think it's much warmer and much more PAF like than the jazz.
Lewguitar said:
I've heard good thing about the Tom Holmes but I have also heard that they are very close to vintage PAF's...if so the neck is a little muddy! I think that a PGn is just a bright and articulate as a Jazz neck but I think it's much warmer and much more PAF like than the jazz.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
You're convincing me to try the PG in my Les Paul! Dr. Barlo thinks I should try some Antiquity neck models until I find one that's really right for my guitar.
I'd play that Les Paul more often if I liked the neck pickup tone better.
The Holmes bridge pickup rocks! I love it. Reminds me of the tone I heard Jeff Beck get from his Les Paul on the Truth album and when I saw him live with that band in '67.
Lew
the guy who invented fire said:
You're convincing me to try the PG in my Les Paul! Dr. Barlo thinks I should try some Antiquity neck models until I find one that's really right for my guitar.
I'd play that Les Paul more often if I liked the neck pickup tone better.
The Holmes bridge pickup rocks! I love it. Reminds me of the tone I heard Jeff Beck get from his Les Paul on the Truth album and when I saw him live with that band in '67.
Lew
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
lew, I have a feeling that you know what a Moderne is (most people do not!) either way they have the same "problem" that most Gibsons have...the neck pickup is RIGHT under the 24th fret node...this makes mud, up until about 2 weeks ago there were only 2 things hat would "fix" this...a Jazz in the neck or if you had a good neck pup that was just a little too fat flip it upside down like Peater Green did...I have used a Jazz several times as well as flipping lots of neck buckers, in fact the neck bucker in the moderne was upside down. when I pu the PG in I thought...I'll try it righ side up first even though I know i'll flip it real soon. I won't flip this one, it sounds great already! My dad is a bit like you ion that he loves the bridge bucker tone but 99% of the time he is playing a strat, even he like the PGn!
Lewguitar said:
lew, I have a feeling that you know what a Moderne is (most people do not!) either way they have the same "problem" that most Gibsons have...the neck pickup is RIGHT under the 24th fret node...this makes mud, up until about 2 weeks ago there were only 2 things hat would "fix" this...a Jazz in the neck or if you had a good neck pup that was just a little too fat flip it upside down like Peater Green did...I have used a Jazz several times as well as flipping lots of neck buckers, in fact the neck bucker in the moderne was upside down. when I pu the PG in I thought...I'll try it righ side up first even though I know i'll flip it real soon. I won't flip this one, it sounds great already! My dad is a bit like you ion that he loves the bridge bucker tone but 99% of the time he is playing a strat, even he like the PGn!
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
Did you know that Wes Montgomery turned the neck pickup around in his L-5 like Peter Green did? He's pictured on the cover of the Verve Ultimate Wes Montgomery CD with his L-5 set up like that. I don't know if he left it that way or not, but he did do that at least for a while.
I owned a PRS 24 fret guitar with the neck pickup moved about 1/2" closer to the bridge pickup for a while. The neck pickup pole pieces were not under the 2nd octave harmonic as the 24th fret was there instead.
I couldn't get used to that! Just didn't sound right to me...
Did you know that Wes Montgomery turned the neck pickup around in his L-5 like Peter Green did? He's pictured on the cover of the Verve Ultimate Wes Montgomery CD with his L-5 set up like that. I don't know if he left it that way or not, but he did do that at least for a while.
I owned a PRS 24 fret guitar with the neck pickup moved about 1/2" closer to the bridge pickup for a while. The neck pickup pole pieces were not under the 2nd octave harmonic as the 24th fret was there instead.
I couldn't get used to that! Just didn't sound right to me...
GHWelles
New member
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
One way to help with the muddy neck pickup: Use an Alnico Pro II neck (or other, but I like the Alnico Pro II neck for this) and wire the volume pot for the neck pickup for the treble bleed circuit using a .001mf cap, which acts as a treble boost when rolling down the volume. The result when you roll back the volume is a nice treble boost and you can get the neck humbucker sounding almost like a Strat single coil using an Alnico Pro II in this setup. I just wired this setup in with an antiquity bridge in a Charvel Strat.
One way to help with the muddy neck pickup: Use an Alnico Pro II neck (or other, but I like the Alnico Pro II neck for this) and wire the volume pot for the neck pickup for the treble bleed circuit using a .001mf cap, which acts as a treble boost when rolling down the volume. The result when you roll back the volume is a nice treble boost and you can get the neck humbucker sounding almost like a Strat single coil using an Alnico Pro II in this setup. I just wired this setup in with an antiquity bridge in a Charvel Strat.
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L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
Right. I use the Seth Lover neck and the PG neck for the same reason. A2 seems to have less "woof" to the bass and that helps me get a clearer tone, but usually a2 is not as bright. I'm not a bleeder cap fan (to crisp for my tastes) but I am a fan of the 50's mod and all of my humbucker guitars are wired that way to help retain highs.
GHWelles said:
Right. I use the Seth Lover neck and the PG neck for the same reason. A2 seems to have less "woof" to the bass and that helps me get a clearer tone, but usually a2 is not as bright. I'm not a bleeder cap fan (to crisp for my tastes) but I am a fan of the 50's mod and all of my humbucker guitars are wired that way to help retain highs.
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the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
I dodn't know that about Wes. About the PRS...the thing is that I can't stand to move it, it changes the tone in a different way. Youo should not move the neck pickup you should just make one that's NOT muddy! That's whi I don't like 24 fret guitars, the neck pickups just sound funny to me...I know it's a fine line between being so fat it gets muddy and being so bright it looses the fat neck pickup tone but the PGn gets me there!
Lewguitar said:
I dodn't know that about Wes. About the PRS...the thing is that I can't stand to move it, it changes the tone in a different way. Youo should not move the neck pickup you should just make one that's NOT muddy! That's whi I don't like 24 fret guitars, the neck pickups just sound funny to me...I know it's a fine line between being so fat it gets muddy and being so bright it looses the fat neck pickup tone but the PGn gets me there!
dr.barlo
New member
Re: Pearly VS Antiquity VS Seth
Hey guys thanks!
I gotta say that I agree with the above, and Lew gave the answer.
Let me concentrate on the neck positions:
Antiquity neck with the dun-aged (degaussed) magnet is a great pickup. It has an open, very clear tone, that is sort of hollow as Lew was saying but not that bright. Think of Peter Green's (and Gary Moore's - from blues for greeney - :duhL ) loved another woman. That round, clear, hollow tone is what you get. It is incredible, mids are there, but still it has this hollow tone.
When you stick an a2 into it it basically becomes close to a seth. BTW mind you I owned a seth set for 3 months only, then sold them because of the magnet mod on my ant set. A5 for the bridge a3 for the neck. Anyway I am gonna come back to that. The hollowness kinda lost, but still you have a very 3d open tone, with mids more pronounced. The bass is still spongy, and highs are enough but not upfront. When you swith to an a3 magnet in the neck, now you take back some of the mids. So I feel that it is basically the same tone ant has, open with 3d clarity, hollow, but brighter, and a little more of that a5 kinda in your face bass in the neck. But not too much. A4's and a5's I thought did not work, because then in my 95LP and R7 (with the maple cap and all), the neck tone started to have some of that non-spongy in your face bass that I don't like that much.
As I said above, I don't think I should compare seths to the others, as I did not own them for a long time. But they were great pickups. Their resistance values were low, 7.30K in the neck and 7.90K in the bridge. That 57 PAF thingy. Not that it is bad, but I personally prefer 8.40-70K bridge (a5) and 7.50-8.00K neck with either an a3 magnet or a dun-aged a2. That's why I am using 2 ant necks, one with the a3 for brighter but still ant kinda tones, and the other with the dun-aged magnet for the more woody version of the first.
PGn's those are great pickups. Have that extra uppermids in the neck. Thus even tho the mids are present, the extra uppermids help you get away from being too round territory. It can scream, but it can be smooth as well. It all depends on your fingers, and the force with which you pull the strings. When I do the pick and finger thingy on the same string for a bend, then it real power of it is so obvious. The same trick leads to: the stock ant blooms with ooooooo; the a3 ant gives me the bloom eeeeee; and the PG is somewhere in between, both of them in there. That's what makes it so cool.
I think I gotta get meself a non-wax potted custom shop PGn wound to 7.80K to go with my 8.35K PGb. The only thing I don't like with the PGn is that it is not as hollow and deep as the ant neck.
I think similar and associated observations hold for the bridge position comparison. There I think the winner is an 8.40-8.70K a5 ant. But 8.40K PGb's come real close, not that they are similar. No they aren't. PG has them uppermids, and makes it somewhat comparable to a more nasal sounding PAF, but still having the a2 sponginess.
The relevant comparison I can tell you of is between my 8.75k PG+ and 8.75K ant bridge with the a5 magnet. I really wish to a/b them against the CS pagey bridge. Maybe later. Anyway, ant bridge is more hollow, more open, more 3d, but with pronounced uppermids (not too much tho, not that nasal) and does great pagey tones. On the other hand, PG+ has more uppermids, more of that nasal a5 PAF tone that somehow is more Duane to my ears you know. If it were to be a little more 3d and a little more open (possessing a little more harmonics, not that it doesn't have any, it has plenty), it would be at par with my timbucker bridge pickup. Still I insist that among the pickups I have that PG+ is the closest to the timbucker bridge I have.
Best,
B
Hey guys thanks!
I gotta say that I agree with the above, and Lew gave the answer.
Let me concentrate on the neck positions:
Antiquity neck with the dun-aged (degaussed) magnet is a great pickup. It has an open, very clear tone, that is sort of hollow as Lew was saying but not that bright. Think of Peter Green's (and Gary Moore's - from blues for greeney - :duhL ) loved another woman. That round, clear, hollow tone is what you get. It is incredible, mids are there, but still it has this hollow tone.
When you stick an a2 into it it basically becomes close to a seth. BTW mind you I owned a seth set for 3 months only, then sold them because of the magnet mod on my ant set. A5 for the bridge a3 for the neck. Anyway I am gonna come back to that. The hollowness kinda lost, but still you have a very 3d open tone, with mids more pronounced. The bass is still spongy, and highs are enough but not upfront. When you swith to an a3 magnet in the neck, now you take back some of the mids. So I feel that it is basically the same tone ant has, open with 3d clarity, hollow, but brighter, and a little more of that a5 kinda in your face bass in the neck. But not too much. A4's and a5's I thought did not work, because then in my 95LP and R7 (with the maple cap and all), the neck tone started to have some of that non-spongy in your face bass that I don't like that much.
As I said above, I don't think I should compare seths to the others, as I did not own them for a long time. But they were great pickups. Their resistance values were low, 7.30K in the neck and 7.90K in the bridge. That 57 PAF thingy. Not that it is bad, but I personally prefer 8.40-70K bridge (a5) and 7.50-8.00K neck with either an a3 magnet or a dun-aged a2. That's why I am using 2 ant necks, one with the a3 for brighter but still ant kinda tones, and the other with the dun-aged magnet for the more woody version of the first.
PGn's those are great pickups. Have that extra uppermids in the neck. Thus even tho the mids are present, the extra uppermids help you get away from being too round territory. It can scream, but it can be smooth as well. It all depends on your fingers, and the force with which you pull the strings. When I do the pick and finger thingy on the same string for a bend, then it real power of it is so obvious. The same trick leads to: the stock ant blooms with ooooooo; the a3 ant gives me the bloom eeeeee; and the PG is somewhere in between, both of them in there. That's what makes it so cool.
I think I gotta get meself a non-wax potted custom shop PGn wound to 7.80K to go with my 8.35K PGb. The only thing I don't like with the PGn is that it is not as hollow and deep as the ant neck.
I think similar and associated observations hold for the bridge position comparison. There I think the winner is an 8.40-8.70K a5 ant. But 8.40K PGb's come real close, not that they are similar. No they aren't. PG has them uppermids, and makes it somewhat comparable to a more nasal sounding PAF, but still having the a2 sponginess.
The relevant comparison I can tell you of is between my 8.75k PG+ and 8.75K ant bridge with the a5 magnet. I really wish to a/b them against the CS pagey bridge. Maybe later. Anyway, ant bridge is more hollow, more open, more 3d, but with pronounced uppermids (not too much tho, not that nasal) and does great pagey tones. On the other hand, PG+ has more uppermids, more of that nasal a5 PAF tone that somehow is more Duane to my ears you know. If it were to be a little more 3d and a little more open (possessing a little more harmonics, not that it doesn't have any, it has plenty), it would be at par with my timbucker bridge pickup. Still I insist that among the pickups I have that PG+ is the closest to the timbucker bridge I have.
Best,
B
