Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

Sure, but that's like saying a Cray supercomputer is better than a Dell laptop. It's clearly superior, but how many people actually need it?
For the 1 in 1,000 guitarists who needs an isolated line for every single effect, it's a good idea. For everyone else, one or two good daisy chains (and I'm including the Brick in this category) is more than adequate - not to mention over $100 cheaper.

I disagree...for starters any player that uses a Teese wah and powers it with a daisy chain, Brick, etc is not only asking for damage to the wah but the warrenty will NOT be honered so all teese wah users (for starters) need a PPII+, or something like it...

Also, any player using both ACA and PSA adapter Boss pedals need a PPII+...

Past that there are all the other things...Mooger foogher pedals, reverse polarity fuzz boxes, Libe 6 pedal etc...sure some of these canbe powered off of a daisy chain or brick but they are all very open to damage...

Maybe I don't need a PPII+ and maybe the added safty features wil never get used for me personally but at the cost of pedals these days it's BY FAR worth it to have it.

On top of all of that the noise that I ost by going to a PPII+ was worth the price of admission alone!

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

Let's be clear on one thing here: there are two types of power-supply-related noise issues.

1. Noise that comes from a bad power supply (usually due to a lack of smoothing and regulation)

2. Noise that comes from a pedal having a poor design through no fault of the power supply itself (usually a ground fault or ground loop within the pedal, or when coupled with other pedals).

Any half-decent power supply should be able to take care of problem 1. Even the industry-standard BOSS PSA delivers smooth, regulated 9V power.

The reason people would need something like the PP2 is because of problem 2. Varying standards, poor quality components, manufacturing defects, and in some cases outright bad design all cause power problems in some pedals. The fact that Geoffrey Teese, for example, can't make a wah that works on a daisy chain while Dunlop churns out thousands of them is kind of weird IMO. This isn't the power supply's fault - it's the pedal's fault.

If you're getting noise on a Brick that you don't get on a PP2, it's one or more of your pedals that's the problem. The PP2 (or any isolated line system for that matter) is compensating for their flaws. Don't believe for a second that the PP2's power is somehow "cleaner" or "quieter" than a Brick's or a One Spot's, because it's absolutely not. The reason it makes your rig quieter is because it's isolating your pedals.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

Dude, you are wrong...plain and simple.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

Dude, you are wrong...plain and simple.

About what exactly? I'm pretty certain that everything I've said in this thread is correct.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

Let's be clear on one thing here: there are two types of power-supply-related noise issues.

1. Noise that comes from a bad power supply (usually due to a lack of smoothing and regulation)

2. Noise that comes from a pedal having a poor design through no fault of the power supply itself (usually a ground fault or ground loop within the pedal, or when coupled with other pedals).

Any half-decent power supply should be able to take care of problem 1. Even the industry-standard BOSS PSA delivers smooth, regulated 9V power.

There's a difference between regular power & 'truly' clean power and it comes down to how good the filtering is on the power supply. ALL power supplies are regulated... not all are filtered and not all filters are created equally.

Ground loops happen for many reasons... and yeah, some devices are pickier then others. That doesn't mean the design sucks, just means its more "special" for whatever reasons. Grounding is somewhat of a black art and when certain devices are slammed together in certain ways weird things can happen.

Usually it's not the electrical ground, but how it relates to the audio ground that's the problem. And it has nothing to do with poor quality parts...

Isolated grounds aren't really any different then a star-ground system which is used in LOTS of A/V installations all over the world. For a reason...

Personally, I've never had a noise problem with pedals that was traced back to a PSU... though I also don't have any esoteric pedals either.

 

[RockNRoling]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

Okay, I think we need to settle this the old fassion way.... MUSKETS!! LOL!

 

[andrizzle]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

Okay, I think we need to settle this the old fashion way.... MUSKRATS!! LOL!

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

There's a difference between regular power & 'truly' clean power and it comes down to how good the filtering is on the power supply. ALL power supplies are regulated... not all are filtered and not all filters are created equally.

Ground loops happen for many reasons... and yeah, some devices are pickier then others. That doesn't mean the design sucks, just means its more "special" for whatever reasons. Grounding is somewhat of a black art and when certain devices are slammed together in certain ways weird things can happen.

Usually it's not the electrical ground, but how it relates to the audio ground that's the problem. And it has nothing to do with poor quality parts...

Isolated grounds aren't really any different then a star-ground system which is used in LOTS of A/V installations all over the world. For a reason...

Personally, I've never had a noise problem with pedals that was traced back to a PSU... though I also don't have any esoteric pedals either.

Moose, you're right ... filtering is another thing I forgot about. Thanks for bringing that up. Filtering only really comes into play if the AC source is problematic though. If your rig is clean and quiet at home but hums at the jam space, this is where filtering will help you.

Personally I think the best approach is to filter your AC power first with a power conditioner, and feed the clean AC power to all your gear. That way you don't have to worry too much about filtering on the DC side, plus you get nice clean power for your amp as well.

Also, it's absolutely true that you could have a situation where Pedal A and Pedal B are good together, Pedal C is fine on its own, but the three of them together are noisy. Line 6 Tonecore pedals are notorious for this. They won't even play nice with each other.

You're wrong about one thing though: there are power supplies out there that aren't regulated. The cheapo ones from Radio Shack, for example. Most devices can tolerate fairly choppy DC, so it's not an issue. An alarm clock, for example, doesn't really care if its power source is a bit choppy. Obviously this is not true for pedals.

There are lots of ways to power pedals, some better than others, but there's no such thing as a "perfect" power supply.

 

[jerryjg]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

What does this one do?;

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/6/6/4/239664.jpg

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

What does this one do?;

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/6/6/4/239664.jpg

Thats not a power supply at all...it is a non midi pedal controler.

BTW, I never said the PPII+ was perfect but it is worlds ahead of a daisy chain for my needs.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

Thats not a power supply at all...it is a non midi pedal controler.

BTW, I never said the PPII+ was perfect but it is worlds ahead of a daisy chain for my needs.

I didn't mean to imply that you thought it was perfect. And don't get me wrong: the PP2 is an excellent power supply. If it meets your needs, then that's all that really matters.

 

[baritone]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

I've been using a 1Spot with a daisy chain for the past few years. It's been working great with no noise for up to 5 pedals at a time. However, just a few days ago, I was moving it to a different outlet, and it came apart. I put it back together really easily, but now it makes noise.

It seems like a lot of pros like using the Boss NS-2 or TU-2 with a daisy chain. If the noise from my 1Spot starts to bother me enough, I may go this route.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

You're wrong about one thing though: there are power supplies out there that aren't regulated. The cheapo ones from Radio Shack, for example. Most devices can tolerate fairly choppy DC, so it's not an issue. An alarm clock, for example

No... well, what I meant in regards to that is that ALL devices have some kind of regulation on them, otherwise they couldn't get a UL listing. Your standard wall wart is regulated in sense that the transformer will spit out more or less 9 volts. Might be 9.7 or maybe 8.5 volts... but it really can't exceed a certain tolerance.

True regulated power requires massive step transformers so that if you get swings & drops, from say 109 to 130 volts it'll spit out an even 120 or whatever you set it to. Big bucks. And not really required for all but really intensive applications, but its nice to have!



Anyway... this came up on another interknot forum for production just the other day. I thought it was interesting as it's directly about guitar rigs so here we go, starting with the original question.

Today we have a lot of stuff like mobil phones, wifi, baby phones, fluorescent bulbs, internt over pwrline, ... all that stuff makeing noise on our power lines and there a nasty peaks and dips in the voltage and what not.

I though this might make it necessary to change the PSUs in the gear to something more robust, with more filtering to make sure the audio stays clear and nice.

Do you EEs find your self using different PSU designs in this days of dirty electricity?

Oh Mr. Nutmeg, what an important point you have raised.

And it's item number five on your list that I refer to. The broad catagory is called PLC - Power Line Communications. And it has the potential to affect every studio owner.

One day I got a call from a studio I tech at, complaining about a tone coming through the monitors and headphones. After the removal of a lot of stuff out of the tracking and control rooms, it's clear that it's coming from the guitar amps, indeed any and every guitar amp, from classic AC30s down to mundane Peaveys, even from this little toy Marshall amp that is battery powered.

The list of what it was not is huge, but what it was is called AMR - Automated Meter Reading. It involves a 12.5kHz tone that performs some kind of synchronization function. And they send it right down your power lines. And think about it - the power lines are giant unshielded cables that come near and into your studio.

Yikes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXXX View Post
in that example, was the noise coming through the mains--ie coupled onto the actual copper entering the amp? Or was it being radiated by power lines overhead?


No, it was not through the power supplies. Straight propogation from the outside power lines to the unbalanced high-impedance inputs.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

well this is going to stay in my rack. I only have my 535Q wah, and a boss NS2 on my pedal board and I just send power to those thru my PEDALSNAKE. The pedals in my rack that I am powering are my MXR phase 90 (vintage, needs he 9v hook up), Boss SD 1, BD 2, DD 5, DD7, MXR 10 band EQ, and Line 6 MM-4 (i have original power supply, and the one spot addapter)

Are any of those in the FX loop?

If they are the DC Brick will give you a ground loop (the FX out front of the amp will be grounded via the DC Brick to the FX in the loop, as well as to the input of the amplifier, which is also grounded to the FX in the loop via the FX loop itself).

Chances are that if the One Spot is inducing hum the DC Brick will too (they're both basically the same idea, just housed different).

There's a reason the Pedal Power II sells so well. It eliminates a lot of headaches. It also has a quieter transformer, which may or may not be an issue for you since it'll be housed in a rack.

 

[man-in-moon]

Re: Pedal Power VS Dunlop Brick

i have a PP2+ and a bbe supacharger and like them both alot. i owned a dc brick before and prefer the PP2+ and the supacharger. they have less hum than the dc did. and seem to be better quality all around.