Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

[Quencho092]

i was never really fond of pedals. everone i talk to, though, always says that pedals are the only way to go...get a good clean amp and through a metal zone in front of it. I have a digitech hot rod, and a boss ds-1 - the overall tone of these pedals is worse than the tone on my cheap crate mx20rc amp. The notes seem to drop dead in place and i hate it. it has improved a bit with my "super fender" (deluxe american strat 50th ann) but i want to know how i would sound with a good amp with good OD. HELP!!!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

i was never really fond of pedals. everone i talk to, though, always says that pedals are the only way to go...get a good clean amp and through a metal zone in front of it. I have a digitech hot rod, and a boss ds-1 - the overall tone of these pedals is worse than the tone on my cheap crate mx20rc amp. The notes seem to drop dead in place and i hate it. it has improved a bit with my "super fender" (deluxe american strat 50th ann) but i want to know how i would sound with a good amp with good OD. HELP!!!

Normally you need a good sounding amp with a good clean tone,preferably tube..You can't polish a turd,so the amp has to be a good sounding one from the start.. :wink:

John

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

The problem lies with the fact that you get what you pay for. For a tube amp that is versatile enough to give you a quality distortion and clean channel, you've got to save and buy one that is in the $600+ range, used. As far as OD pedals, they all have a different character. Midline modded ones and highend boutique ones are where the good tone is. Also, SS amps don't react the same way to pedals as tube amps that are set on the midpoint between clean and gainy. My advise is to find a good two channel amp with a gain channel that is either good or great. Then, invest in a pedal that's much better than what you're currently using. I'd sell those, and look into a Fulltone FDII, Banzai Coldfusion or Fireball, Maxon 808 Reissue, or even some of the Marshall pedals like the Gov'nr or Jackhammer. Set the amp up for great clean and gainy rhythm tones, then use the OD to send the gain into a nice, tight, focused lead tone.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

The master has spoken.

The way my Marshall sounds best (and most versital) is to set my clean channel where I want it, then adjust the drive channel to be of appropriate volume and medium gritty gain for rythym work, then kick it up a notch with a Boss SD-1 modded by our forum tone god Stratdeluxer...just like Gearjoneser described above.

By the way John, the new voice of my amp really brings the quality of that pedal out. I thought it was a great improvement before, but now it's outstanding. My talent level just needs to improve some.

Sorry for the brief hijack...a great sounding clean channel on a quality tube amp with even a moderatly acceptabe drive channel will really become versital with a good pedal. The next pedal I'll buy is a Fulltone FD II.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

The master has spoken.

The way my Marshall sounds best (and most versital) is to set my clean channel where I want it, then adjust the drive channel to be of appropriate volume and medium gritty gain for rythym work, then kick it up a notch with a Boss SD-1 modded by our forum tone god Stratdeluxer...just like Gearjoneser described above.

By the way John, the new voice of my amp really brings the quality of that pedal out. I thought it was a great improvement before, but now it's outstanding. My talent level just needs to improve some.

Sorry for the brief hijack...a great sounding clean channel on a quality tube amp with even a moderatly acceptabe drive channel will really become versital with a good pedal. The next pedal I'll buy is a Fulltone FD II.

Hello Jeff....No problem..(Hijack away)...Glad the pedal rocks for ya buddy.. :dance:

John

 

[Curly]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

The question has been answered, but I'll add this comment...

There just aren't a lot of secrets left to getting good tone. Most of the players who inspired us to play, played good guitars through tube amps.

Despite that, the question gets asked over and over ... "I'm not getting the tone I want with my '_________' SS amp. No, and quite simply you won't, and even if you thought you could, you will never replicate the feel, the touch response of a tube amp.

(I know that some amp modeling fans will say I'm wrong, that the newer amp modelers come close to the feel of tube amps, but I'll have to have pretty convincing evidence. No flames, please.)

There is another advantage of tube amps, which is that if you understand the way they operate, they are tweakable over a fairly wide range - by using different tubes and adjusting the bias, you can voice an amp to play cleaner or more overdriven to suit your style.

and there are decent affordable tube amps out there, like a used Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, '59 Bassman reissue, or blackface or silverface Bassman heads, which with a little tech work will be pro gigging gear. I mention Fenders, because that's what I know best, but others can tell you different brands that have affordable tube amps.

BTW, my two DS-1's that John modded are a couple of my favorite distortion pedals. I'd consider doing the mod, which is pretty affordable, before selling the pedal.

best of luck in your quest.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

One question for StratDeluxer97.....Why do Boss OD-1's have a more natural and better sound than most Boss OD's that followed like the Super and Turbo? I used to use an OD-1 in front of a 2555 Jubilee when I was 17-22, and it sounded great. Then, I sold it for $35, like a fool. Now, they go for more money than almost any other Boss. Is it the chip, or the lack of a tone control and simpler electronics?

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

Hehe yep all what the gents above me said.
I have a 200+ Hiwatt head that is clean, big fat and in extreme control of all what it does, I use a two-channel highgain overdrive plus a few other things with it, no lack of any good sound there, alot of great guitarists uses pedals to get their much copied sounds.
Like said, get a good amp, it will never sound better than your amp as it is.
Our pedals pr example will not compliment an amp you do not like, it will probally make it sound bad because of the added overdrive.
The amp is the main foundation to sound along with good speakers.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

do overdrive pedals generate their own fuzz at all or are they simply for "overdriving" the amplifier? And is there any way i could really hammer the power stage of my old Peavey classic to generate a natural tube distortion without clipping the crappy SS preamp stage?

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

One question for StratDeluxer97.....Why do Boss OD-1's have a more natural and better sound than most Boss OD's that followed like the Super and Turbo? I used to use an OD-1 in front of a 2555 Jubilee when I was 17-22, and it sounded great. Then, I sold it for $35, like a fool. Now, they go for more money than almost any other Boss. Is it the chip, or the lack of a tone control and simpler electronics?

Just an early pedal that Boss got right...Like the Tube Screamer was and still is very right...It's just a basic circuit that works..Without getting all techie about it...

John

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

This thread is funny! "My Arion distortion pedal sounds like arse in my Gorilla 20W combo, so therefore all distortion pedals are crap!" lol

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

This thread is funny! "My Orion distortion pedal sounds like arse in my Gorilla 20W combo, so therefore all distortion pedals are crap! lol

I don't agree that all distortion pedals are crap...I have a slew of pedals designed to get a very convincing and specific tone that works...Pedals are easy to work with also and they've been around an awful long time... :burnout:

 

[Imp]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

you will never replicate the feel, the touch response of a tube amp.

'HAHA! check out my new modelling amp! 700 quid, and it sounds just like a valve amp!'

'check out mine - it cost 350, and it IS a valve amp' :dance:

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

its not that im using a really crappy amp with my pedals-its a peavey classic running on tubes. the only problem is that it sounds better when i use my crate mx20rc 20 watt combo as a preamp than with pedals. i dont use pedals with my crate, it has an ok distortion, but the sad part is that the cheap distortion on the crate sounds better than distortion pedals on my peavey. when i set up my peavey with really low channel volume and master volume at 10, and plug my strat straight in, the clean sounds are great. Its not sterile at all, nice and fat sounds with the tone rolled off. but the problem is that when i need distortion, its not there and my ds-1 and the hot rod do not console me much

 

[rspst14]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

Are you talking about the old Peavey Classic amps from the 70's or the newer ones that were made 1991-present? Similar names, but completely different amps. If it's an old one, it may be because older amps simply don't have the gain that many modern amps do. If it's a newer Classic series tube amp, then you have to be doing something wrong in the way you are setting it, because I get nice smooth distortion from mine, and it has enough gain to cover everything except the heaviest of metal.

I'm guessing that your problem may not be with the amp at all. First of all, if you like a lot of gain, you need a humbucker guitar. Strats are nice for overdriven sound, but single coils generally lack the thicker. more powerful sound of a humbucker. Second, if your guitar lacks sustain, it's most likely a setup problem. In fact, I don't think that I've ever come across a lack of sustain problem that was caused by an amp or a pedal. 99% of the time, it's caused by things like action that is too low, pickups that are adjusted too low or too high, poorly cut nut, etc.

Ryan

 

[mrid]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

Here's a pedal that IS a M-F'ing "valve amp!" :laugh2:

http://www.gjika.com/welcome.htm

 

[metal101]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

I really think its to each his or her own. i personally when playing live use a few stomps. i learned the hard way that alot of stomp manufacturers use gimmicks to get you to buy but you should really [at least any good shop] take the time to plug in the stomp and listen to it and twist some knobs. i wouldnt ever buy a stomp because the name implies its all that.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

its really an older model, probably early 80's. the new classics are real different i know

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

guitar is really fine-action high enough to avoid all buzz near perfect setup. but the tone of distortion pedals on my clean peavey sounds awful most of the time. ive gotten good sounds off my band teacher's dsl2000, and my bandmate's jcm800, so i guess i simply can't stand stomp boxes.

and to answer your second comment, i have 2 other guitars with humbuckers and switched to single coils because i sought the smooth, lightly "distortion glazed" strat tones of early iron maiden. i play in a metal cover band, but my musical tastes have been maturing more toward jazz and classic rock/blues, so i chose a strat to get the best of both worlds-most versatile blues/rock guitar-and it's even great for classic metal tones. the guitar is not a problem then, as i have tried it out with other better amps than my own and have gotten sweet sounds out of it. what i do want to find out is if there's any way i could squeeze more tone out of my peavey classic (old) using pedals (preferably overdrive), new tubes etc.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

Well it seems that you have just not tried anything worth the while then.
Pedals are not created equally.