Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

[\m/(00)\m/]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

pedals are not the problem. unless if you have a metal zone or something like that.
i was at a party on saturday with a bunch of musicians. got to play on this guys smaller rig. it consisted of a fedner MIM strat w/ lindy fralin vintage hot's in it, a peavey classic 30 combo, a pedal board of a BOSS ds-1, vox wah, some other overdive pedal, some chorus pedal, a BOSS digital delay, and some voodoo lab pedals. now let me tell you this, that was probbaly the best tone i have ever heard. i almost sounded like eirc johnson through that!!!! the tone was insane, so beautiful clean as well as avery awesome blues/rock tone.

 

[Young Angus]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

Ill just post up my personal experiences with this.

Ive just bought a high quality hand wired and point to point true bypassed (i guess you could call it boutique) dave ulbrick distortion pedal, and it sounds fantastic! Ive just been using it as a bit of a booster to my already heavy channels on my ENGL and it sounds great for solo stuff.

Good quality pedal with good amp = good tone.

Bad quality amp with pretty much anything = bad (or at least mediocre) tone.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

and to answer your second comment, i have 2 other guitars with humbuckers and switched to single coils because i sought the smooth, lightly "distortion glazed" strat tones of early iron maiden. i play in a metal cover band, but my musical tastes have been maturing more toward jazz and classic rock/blues, so i chose a strat to get the best of both worlds-most versatile blues/rock guitar-and it's even great for classic metal tones. the guitar is not a problem then, as i have tried it out with other better amps than my own and have gotten sweet sounds out of it. what i do want to find out is if there's any way i could squeeze more tone out of my peavey classic (old) using pedals (preferably overdrive), new tubes etc.

Maiden's guitarists have always used bridge humbuckers. In the early days, Murray used a vintage Strat, with what appears to be a DiMarzio pup in the bridge. (PAF or PAF Pro? Dunno for certain) Might've been a Gibson pup, also, but I doubt it, judging by the sound he had. He also had a Strat with a nickel covered humbucker in the bridge, probably a Gibson PAF. Adrian smith used an Ibanez Destroyer, also with a humbucker in the bridge. The sound they got was from using lower gain amps, which they kicked into distortion with high output pups, much the same as Judas Priest did in the late 70's, early 80's. (Listen to the guitar sound on Sin after Sin, for example.

I understand that you want the versatility of a Strat, but if you want the crunch of metal, even a bladed pup won't suffice without some kind of additional gain stage. My Strat has Joe Barden pups in it, and I still use an OD pedal to kick the gain into high gear. I play in a NWOBHM style band as well.

 

[McLaughysSN]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

as said before.. the pedal is NOT your problem, a great amp is the way to good tone

i put a stock DS-1 in front of my sovtek tube amp and was cranking out almost mesa like tones with a more tamed sound (i was lovein' it) then i threw a keeley modded DS-1 in front and maaaannnnnnnnnnn i wouldn't trade it for the world

one you settle with a nice amp, your opinion might change (unless you get something like matchless, then theres no reason for pedals )

 

[Bludave]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

I like to use pedals to sweeten the sound. Chorus, Delay, Leslie. That being said I use two Amps. Marshall & Fender. Both tube, both soud really good. I use pedals mainly because of Volume. It is very hard to get a great Amp to sound great at lower volume. It is much easier if you have a "Good Quality" OD pedal to help with this. But it all starts with a really good Amp!

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

thanks everyone, now i sort of have a good idea. Does a fender bassman 58 RI overdrive well witha pedal, and which would you recommend?

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

on another note, what would make a good guitar preamp to create saturation without that painful grit i always get with Art Tube Pac tube preamp/compressors and other big name preamps.

 

[rspst14]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

You mentioned new tubes...I thought the old Classic series peavey amps were solid state? It's possible that either the preamp or power amp is solid state while the other uses tubes. I don't remember for sure. If the amp does have tubes, what brand are they and when was the last time they were replaced? Power tubes have a typical lifespan of one year under normal playing conditions, give or take a few months. Preamp tubes should last several years. If it's been a while, the first thing I would do is try a new set of JJ tubes. If you have a tube preamp in that Classic, try a set of JJ 12AX7 tubes graded for high gain.

Ryan

 

[some_dude]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

on another note, what would make a good guitar preamp to create saturation without that painful grit i always get with Art Tube Pac tube preamp/compressors and other big name preamps.

Overdrive the power amp.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

whats the best technique for overdriving a power amp, as i want to prevent that nasty grit that my peavey generates

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

will a compressor help, and if so at what settings?
and to answer rspst14's question, the peavey has tube power (6l6 tubes) and solid state preamp. Its 50 watts 2 tubes. i currently have a set of sovtek 5881's in it but am not really satisfied with the sound. i was looking at the kt66hp bluesbreaker reissue tubes (the set is like 60 something) as everyone praises it for its great tone and smooth warmth. my key objective now is to find out how to hammer my power amp to get that natural distortion. I studied the site www.amptone.com and the webmaster's views on how preamp tube distortion is lacking without the creamy UMPH and breakup of power tubes. What distortion rating should i get the kt66 tubes in if i want to get the basis of my distortion from them (1-10 breakup timing/softness in distortion. lots of questions, i know, but i am very curious about how to both improve my skills and my tone.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

whats the best technique for overdriving a power amp, as i want to prevent that nasty grit that my peavey generates

To do this, you either need a place where you can play/practice loud, or an attenuator.

For a bright, clean, articulate overdrive, turn the gain down, the channel master up (if your amps channel switching), and the master volume up.

For a little more smoothness, turn your gain up as you turn the channel master down (if your amp is channel switching). While you do this listen and try to keep the same overdrive levels in the power tubes while you adjust the gain/volume.

For a more saturated and tone, turn the gain up a little more while turning the channel volume down some more. Be carefull with this one, because if you put too much gain with not enough volume, you get that grainyness you don't want. But if you balance it right, the preamp and poweramp will overdrive together.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

i get the basic function of an amp and the master volume etc; what i wanted to know is how to get almost only power amp distortion most efficiently without an attenuator. You could crank the channel volume and roll off the master volume slightly, but that would get too much preamp drive-exactly what i don't want from the nasty Peavey solid state preamp.All power amp is what im looking for-are there any mods to turn an amp into a power amp only, or make an input and a volume pot direct to the power stage?

 

[rspst14]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

Here's a thought...rather than trying to make do with an amp that simply doesn't work for you, why not sell it and use the money to buy one of the newer Classic 50's? The Classic 50 is one of my favorite amps of all time. For the stuff you play, I'm sure you could dial in all sorts of good tones. I can nail any of the sounds you mentioned using my modded Classic 50. That's another thing, if you have $25 and some soldering experience, it's easy to mod those amps to make them sound even better.

Ryan

 

[some_dude]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

what i wanted to know is how to get almost only power amp distortion most efficiently without an attenuator.

For a bright, clean, articulate overdrive, turn the gain down, the channel master up (if your amps channel switching), and the master volume up.

You could crank the channel volume and roll off the master volume slightly, but that would get too much preamp drive-exactly what i don't want from the nasty Peavey solid state preamp.

For a bright, clean, articulate overdrive, turn the gain down, the channel master up (if your amps channel switching), and the master volume up.

All power amp is what im looking for

For a bright, clean, articulate overdrive, turn the gain down, the channel master up (if your amps channel switching), and the master volume up.

-are there any mods to turn an amp into a power amp only,

Effects loop. If you patch in to the effects loop return, you're going strait into your power amp.

or make an input and a volume pot direct to the power stage?

Yes, but then you'd need another preamp to drive the power amp. Your guitar's insturment level signal isn't strong enough to drive a power amp effectivly. There also wouldn't be any tone shaping, since you've bypassed your amps EQ.


The only way to get power amp distortion is to drive the power amp hard enough that it distorts. A byproduct of driving the amp this hard is volume. The only way you can lower the volume of a distorted power amp is by using some form of attenuation. Whether it be a power attenuator (THD Hotplate, Weber Mass), a DI into a monitor, or a speaker isolation box.

 

[bvc310]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

Here's a thought...rather than trying to make do with an amp that simply doesn't work for you, why not sell it and use the money to buy one of the newer Classic 50's? The Classic 50 is one of my favorite amps of all time. For the stuff you play, I'm sure you could dial in all sorts of good tones. I can nail any of the sounds you mentioned using my modded Classic 50. That's another thing, if you have $25 and some soldering experience, it's easy to mod those amps to make them sound even better.

Ryan

exactly, couldnt have said it better myself. The new classic 50s are amazing for the price and great all together.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

i was looking at a 59 bassman head, and the peavey has no effects loop!

 

[rspst14]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

i was looking at a 59 bassman head, and the peavey has no effects loop!

The Classic 50 models made from 1993-present have effects loops. Only the 1991 and 1992 models do not have them, and they can be easily retrofitted with an effects loop for $50.

Bassman's are nice too, but I prefer the Classic 50 myself.

Ryan

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Pedals=second rate tone, mediocre sustain

well my peavey classic is from somewhere between 1976 and 1983, its a 100 series VTX? IT has no features except a tremolo, spring reverb, and series and parallel channel combining. And to answer an older question, i currently have a set of sovtek 5881 power tubes (dont like em too much, sound flat and gritty). i Bought them last year at around april, but installed them during late summer. I'm thinking of gettting a good set of kt66 power tubes, as they have lots of hype behind them (anything should be better than my sovteks anyway.)whats the scoop on the kt66?(theyre 6l6 tubes-same output, different species.)

How does the classic 50 stack up against an authentic Bassman (they were handwired up until 60 something)