Perceived output and DC resistance

[RockinProf]

Hi all,

First post here, forgive me if this question has shown up previously. I'm trying to figure out if I have a potential wiring issue, if this is a usual phenomenon or if I just have a bias in my hearing. I have (guitar 1) a US strat with a Floyd and a JB trembucker in the bridge, measured off the output jack I get 16.2K. Considering it was a cold room and I have a 250K pot on the volume that seems in tolerance. Guitar 2 is a 93' Gibson Les Paul Standard with the factory 498T in the bridge, original pots and measuring 13.9K. Again this is well within tolerance. Guitar 3 is a 1981 Ibanez Artist with a Jason Becker Perpetual Burn in the bridge and a 250K volume pot. It measures around 11K off the output jack.

I'm a bit perplexed as it seems as though the (bridge pickup) output of these three guitars is negatively related to the DC resistance of the bridge pickups. Being that the resistance of all three pickups seems reasonable, there's no intermittent weirdness and all of the soldering looks pretty good to me, is there a way to explain why the pickups I would expect to be the hottest (using the criteria of creating overdrive at the lowest gain) are the least hot? Is there anything I should be checking that I've overlooked, could this be a weird EQ thing (I set my amp typically Bass 4, Mid 6.5, Treble 6, Presence 5.5.)?

Any thoughts?

Thanks!!

 

[Mincer]

Re: Perceived output and DC resistance

Welcome to the forum!

I think to do a true comparison, you'd have to try all 3 pickups in one guitar. There are simply too many differences from one guitar to another to pin it down to the pickups themselves being the source of the inherent loudness. Pickup height, bridge materials, wood, scale length, etc will all influence what you hear. You'd have to eliminate the variables to hear the loudness of one pickup vs another.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Perceived output and DC resistance

Dc resistance alone is one of the poorest indicators of output. Frequency response the q of that response and inductance are a far greater parameters of output.

 

[RockinProf]

Re: Perceived output and DC resistance

Welcome to the forum!

I think to do a true comparison, you'd have to try all 3 pickups in one guitar. There are simply too many differences from one guitar to another to pin it down to the pickups themselves being the source of the inherent loudness. Pickup height, bridge materials, wood, scale length, etc will all influence what you hear. You'd have to eliminate the variables to hear the loudness of one pickup vs another.

Thanks for the reply,

Being that I have two kids under 5 and work way more than full time hours, I'm short of the time to pull pickup from instruments and try them in the others. I agree that that would be an ideal test that would certainly define if the perceived output difference was a function of the guitar vs. the pickup though. In terms of the setup and pickup height, I have all three guitars setup the same, or at least within very small fractions of a milometer in difference in terms of pickup height, string to fret distance and neck relief.

I'll re-frame the question to: is it reasonable that a 1992 US Fender Floyd Rose Classic (alder body, rosewood fingerboard, evo fret wire, maple neck, original Floyd Rose bridge and a JB trembucker) could be substantially quieter than a 1981 Ibanez Artist with a mahogany body, thick maple cap, set maple neck, rosewood fingerboard, Dunlop frets, Ibanez roller bridge, quick change tail piece and a Jason Becker Perpetual Burn bridge pickup? It seems really odd to me that this could be possible... so curious if I should suspect a wiring issue that should be addressed or if....... that's just the what should be expected. Again, I have little to no time to tinker, so targeted advice if there is a potential issue would be appreciated.

Thanks again!

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Perceived output and DC resistance

Well the JB tests at 737mv and the Jason Becker at 582mv, so you would expect the JB to sound hotter. Maybe compare them clean.

 

[gregory]

Re: Perceived output and DC resistance

I don't see why this should come as such a surprise. Is there anything wrong with what your guitars sound like? If so, what don't you like about them.

FWIW, I would never base my decision to buy a pickup on those questionable voltage measurements. That one member was supposedly able to verify one data point for a pickup I don't see myself using does nothing for me.

 

[RockinProf]

Re: Perceived output and DC resistance

Well the JB tests at 737mv and the Jason Becker at 582mv, so you would expect the JB to sound hotter. Maybe compare them clean.

I agree that the JB should be louder - conceptually. I haven't had time to play in...... years. Original Super 58 in the Ibanez gave up sitting in the closet. recently got back in to it and swapped the dead pickup with the Becker. Played the Stat with the JB and then the Ibanez and was shocked how much louder the Ibanez with the Becker was. Even tried the Les Paul Standard with the 498 T, which seemed a lot louder than the JB.

I've been trying all three with different levels of gain on a freshly serviced JCM 2000 and a little Soldano Atomic 16 that works great(yes I had serious GAS when I used to gig and stuff - before I got married and the rest). When I set the amps dead clean it's very apparent that the Becker has more juice than the Gibson 498T and even more than the JB. Now that my playing really sucks and I'm hacking back to getting some chops back the difference that shouldn't be there but is is making me wonder.

Is there a chance that when the output jack reads a value that is in tolerance, that somewhere power is being bled to ground and not hitting the amp? Or, if any power was going to ground, would the resistance of the pickup change?

Thanks!

 

[RockinProf]

Re: Perceived output and DC resistance

I don't see why this should come as such a surprise. Is there anything wrong with what your guitars sound like? If so, what don't you like about them.

FWIW, I would never base my decision to buy a pickup on those questionable voltage measurements. That one member was supposedly able to verify one data point for a pickup I don't see myself using does nothing for me.

All of the guitars sound great, the math professor in me just has to reconcile why my expectations are not being observed. Also, that if the guitar is 99% awesome in every way, but there's an issue (e.g. power being bled to ground), it potentially could go to 110% awesome if it was an issue that was dealt with. So it's purely conceptual and seeing how far I can push it.

Thanks!

 

[Jacew]

Re: Perceived output and DC resistance

Pickup height and position affect the loudness far more than any other thing.

Of course if can't get them adjusted to somewhat similar volume, there might be an issue with wiring.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Perceived output and DC resistance

Loudness also involves plugging into an amp and a speaker. Neither of these two reproduce sound evenly. If one pickup hits a 'hot' area in the amp + speaker and others don't then this part alone could be a major difference. Then add in the room that the tests are being done - air and reflections are key too.

So even with MV readings there are many other factors in loudness.

 

[fab.regnaut]

Re: Perceived output and DC resistance

My two cents : I find that a lot of moderate output pickups are louder that distortion one .
And as an explanation , it is the dynamic is there , as with the distortion pups it is not .
It is like you plug in a clean channel vs a distortion channel , you have to lower the volume because there is so much more dynamics .

 

[gregory]

Re: Perceived output and DC resistance

If the higher output pickup is just that then the dynamic range is also higher, so long as it is possible to get it to be as quiet as a lower output pickup. That is the definition of dynamic range.

There are other factors too such as the tonality of the pickup as well as its touch-sensitivity.