Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

[El Dunco]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

I do not understand the argument of "players interacting with one another" and "creating music live", although I admit I've not been to a Jazz Improv, but then again, I saw no mention of that scenario in the original discussion, so it's a non-issue here.

Couldn't one argue that interacting with the backing track (playing tightly with it and sequencing room to improvise then coming back in at the right time etc.) is a skill in itself? This 'organic only' philosophy is older than steam and has been leveled against rock music with samples ever since rock bands decided to break the rules. Even we got that in the early days "you can't put keyboards/samples in thrash. Then it's not 'tr00 thrash!" and so on but they were a vocal minority and I haven't heard from them since.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

Yeah, you could, but it isn't interesting for me to watch. And musicians playing music together is different than just performing pre-rehearsed music. And this exists outside of the jazz idiom. As far as clinics go, yeah, I find the shreeder-of-the week a lot more uninteresting with backing tracks than if he/she can put something together musically to hold an audience's attention without them. Still, the primary focus of a clinic is to sell product. The primary focus of a musician performing is to keep people ordering drinks/food at a venue or to sell tickets. I would still rather see interesting inventive arrangements performed live than what amounts to one step away from karaoke live- every single time.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

Yeah, you could, but it isn't interesting for me to watch. And musicians playing music together is different than just performing pre-rehearsed music. And this exists outside of the jazz idiom. As far as clinics go, yeah, I find the shreeder-of-the week a lot more uninteresting with backing tracks than if he/she can put something together musically to hold an audience's attention without them. Still, the primary focus of a clinic is to sell product. The primary focus of a musician performing is to keep people ordering drinks/food at a venue or to sell tickets. I would still rather see interesting inventive arrangements performed live than what amounts to one step away from karaoke live- every single time.

My side project fixes this by(over)compensating for the machine drum tracks with a BDSM orgy where the kit would be and black and white snuff films projected behind. If that's not entertainment to you, you're probably not our intended audience.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

I personally agree, but I'd like to reiterate my point about us being musicians (see my post early in this thread). Ultimately success comes down to an audience being pleased... and we musicians tend to be harder to please in that regard. We just need to keep in mind that for most audiences musicians will be in the minority.


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[El Dunco]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

I personally agree, but I'd like to reiterate my point about us being musicians (see my post early in this thread). Ultimately success comes down to an audience being pleased... and we musicians tend to be harder to please in that regard. We just need to keep in mind that for most audiences musicians will be in the minority.


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It seems to me it's more of a necessity thing and if TwilightOdyssey could assemble a full band for his project, he would.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

It seems to me it's more of a necessity thing and if TwilightOdyssey could assemble a full band for his project, he would.

Either way... whether necessity or preference, if he can please his target audience I'd call that a win.


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[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

Yeah, you could, but it isn't interesting for me to watch.

As an armchair psychologist, I must ask: Why not?

And musicians playing music together is different than just performing pre-rehearsed music.

Oh? How so?

The primary focus of a musician performing is to keep people ordering drinks/food at a venue or to sell tickets.

I strongly disagree with this, personally, but we won't go into it here.

I would still rather see interesting inventive arrangements performed live than what amounts to one step away from karaoke live- every single time.

Why?

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

Didn't he say something like "I want to see people performing, not just playing music" or vice-versa. What's the difference? Those two things are synonymous.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

I personally agree, but I'd like to reiterate my point about us being musicians (see my post early in this thread). Ultimately success comes down to an audience being pleased... and we musicians tend to be harder to please in that regard. We just need to keep in mind that for most audiences musicians will be in the minority.


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I don't think so. I have to be pleased first. I am not there to entertain the audience (at least not at my shows). I have to feel comfortable with what I present.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

As an armchair psychologist, I must ask: Why not?



Oh? How so?



I strongly disagree with this, personally, but we won't go into it here.



Why?

It isn't interesting because I'd rather see an interesting arrangement by an interesting musician. I've actually walked out of places that I don't like the music being played (real musicians, radio, or a combination of both). I know lots of people don't care. I am not one of them, but this is also what I do.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

Didn't he say something like "I want to see people performing, not just playing music" or vice-versa. What's the difference? Those two things are synonymous.

To me, it isn't. Anyone who goes on stage with excellent musicians will tell you the same thing. There is a huge gap.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

To me, it isn't. Anyone who goes on stage with excellent musicians will tell you the same thing. There is a huge gap.

Are you suggesting I don't because I'm not on board with your language syntax?

Fine. I'll play your game. Performing well with good musicians live and playing music well with good musicians live. Those two are interchangeable.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

I don't think so. I have to be pleased first. I am not there to entertain the audience (at least not at my shows). I have to feel comfortable with what I present.

Okay... I get it. Now THAT'S a whole different kettle of fish. I agree wholeheartedly that NONE of us should be presenting a show that we don't feel comfortable presenting... no matter what the reason. I probably wouldn't do the one-man-band thing for the same reason... because I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it. It just wouldn't be my thing, but I still say that if a guy (or gal) can put the thing together and find success (or at least satisfaction) in it, more power to him/her.

It's kind of similar in concept to the fact that nearly everybody has styles of music that they listen to and say, "Uggh! What the hell were they thinking?" We dislike it, don't understand it, can't appreciate it, or whatever... yet SOMEBODY out there must like it, otherwise the performer wouldn't be selling records! (I know, nobody sells records anymore, but you know what I mean!)

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

Are you suggesting I don't because I'm not on board with your language syntax?

Fine. I'll play your game. Performing well with good musicians live and playing music well with good musicians live. Those two are interchangeable.

I think Mincer's probably referring to the idea that playing live with a bunch of guys is a whole different experience than playing along with a pre-made recording... even if you made the recording yourself with the same bunch of guys. Interesting (and sometimes unexpected) things happen playing live that simply won't be there if you're playing along with something pre-recorded.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

I think Mincer's probably referring to the idea that playing live with a bunch of guys is a whole different experience than playing along with a pre-made recording... even if you made the recording yourself with the same bunch of guys. Interesting (and sometimes unexpected) things happen playing live that simply won't be there if you're playing along with something pre-recorded.

Yeah nah, I don't play to pre-recorded backing tracks in my main band. It's all live musicians (really good ones I might add) and the only thing pre-recorded are the samples that are still played live in a sense and can't be recreated live from scratch anyway.


I'm simply talking in terms of language. You can say "I'm performing tonight" or "I'm playing tonight" interchangeably and they are both equally valid ways to describe what you're doing no matter what the format of your band is and it's pretentious to suggest that you can't. Would you seriously go to correct me if I say that and go "You're not playing, you're performing"?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

We are not talking about the same thing. Performing music the same way all of the the time with machines (or musicians) is not the same as musically interacting with great musicians onstage, creating something that never existed before (perhaps in a framework of something that has). Think jazz, but not always with the jazz vocabulary.
Musicians playing the same exact thing night after night with their licks in exactly the same place eventually stops being exciting for the musicians, and it shows if I am in the audience. To get back to the topic, though, playing 'Margaritaville' while strumming acoustic guitar, and playing along to tracks of bass, drums, and steel drums is lame. I'd rather just hear the guitar. It doesn't add anything to my ears. In no instance when I hear tracks do I ever think 'wow, this is much better than hearing a whole band'. Because somewhere in that town, a real band is playing, and I will be at that gig, cheering them on.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

But if you're on stage with "excellent" musicians, it does sound the same every time. The same notes in the same place. That's called Consistency. Yes you can take small walks within the structure, but those are small walks, more like pacing or meandering, actually, but you can't stray too far or you blow the performance of said song.

And yes, you can actually program machines to "wander", especially with drum sequencers that have "humanize" features like adjustable Swing/Feel.

Obviously you can't do that if all you've got is a CD in a karaoke machine and a guitar plugged into it. TwilightOdyssey did not suggest doing it with just a CD, but it was mentioned by someone else in a reply earlier (the other thread I think). There's a world of difference there.

With on-stage sequencers, you can take your hand off your guitar to tweak a running sequence during a song.
It takes skill, and practice, just like a crowd of warm bodies with instruments in their hands.

With a multi-track recorder or sequencing unit running out to a mixer, you can set up alternative patterns and fills in a given sequence and swap them on the fly with the channel mutes to keep it from being "the exact same thing all the time".
Or you can leave the backing tracks alone and make the primary focus the current solo/melody-carrying instrument.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

We are not talking about the same thing. Performing music the same way all of the the time with machines (or musicians) is not the same as musically interacting with great musicians onstage, creating something that never existed before (perhaps in a framework of something that has). Think jazz, but not always with the jazz vocabulary.
Musicians playing the same exact thing night after night with their licks in exactly the same place eventually stops being exciting for the musicians, and it shows if I am in the audience. To get back to the topic, though, playing 'Margaritaville' while strumming acoustic guitar, and playing along to tracks of bass, drums, and steel drums is lame. I'd rather just hear the guitar. It doesn't add anything to my ears. In no instance when I hear tracks do I ever think 'wow, this is much better than hearing a whole band'. Because somewhere in that town, a real band is playing, and I will be at that gig, cheering them on.

We make variations to parts of our songs to make them more fun live that makes more sense in a live context than studio but we play songs that we have written that people come to hear. Changing them the way you described would make them the songs we had written no longer. People listen to the CDs or Spotify of whatever, see the band they like is playing and attend because they want to hear those songs but better because it's live. Whether you're in the audience or not is irrelevant at least in regards to us because I seriously doubt you would like our music anyway and if you attended a show with us or any other band with a following and then left because it wasn't up to your idiosyncratic standards, I can't the band would notice.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

I think watching a dude plugged into an ipod/pad live onstage can get boring. Nothing against the dudes who do it..in fact I've watched some great musicians work that way..but visually ..it's not very entertaining after a while. Personally, I'm glad I have a full band for that..

I'm all for midnight bedroom jamming with a looper (haha!) but I would'nt really want to do that on stage. Sure, it can be made to sound pretty realistic, especially by tap-dancing around on high-end loopers, sequencers etc.. but it's never visually going to be as much fun to watch as a good band going full tilt..

Regarding interaction/excellent musicians etc. Yeah, but it depends upon the genre. I mean with some types of music it's all about playing stuff note-for-note live and that's all the excellent musicians onstage would be expected to do, as opposed to interacting with each other/jamming etc. Obviously, machine's could do that just as well or better.. :laugh2:

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Perhaps a slightly more civilized version of the One Man Band thread?

but visually ..it's not very entertaining after a while. Personally, I'm glad I have a full band for that..

There's got to be something performers without bands can do to compensate for that right? How about the tried and true strippers in cages?