Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

[Masta' C]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

1) DCR only correlates to output when we're speaking of a specific wire gauge and the same coil geometry (i.e. over-winding a standard Custom coil, for example). Change the wire gauge or the geometry and comparisons are out the window. Magnets have a lot to do with the "real world" output of a pickup, as well.

2) There are plenty of high-DCR humbuckers with low output relative to what most would expect based on numbers alone. Look at the Super V, RTM, El Diablo, etc. DiMarzio has some crazy high-DCR designs with only moderate output, as well.

3) OP, adding additional winds to the Custom 5 will reduce its "scooped" nature a bit, taming the highs and filling in the mids the more you over-wind it. The Custom Shop will know where the sweet spot between "more output" and "scooped" is, so that's probably your best bet. Also, I doubt anyone has made a Perpetual Burn hybrid to know exactly what the result there might be. You're welcome to be the first and report back! Some of us would definitely be interested. You've also received some solid suggestions about other production pickups that have a scooped nature. The Steve's Special came to my mind, as well, when I read your desired characteristics

 

[orpheo]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

Show me a low output pickup at 20k. There is some correlation between output and res

Easy peasy my man.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/yjm-fury-strat-neck?__uuid_ref=5dc02d63af39c

https://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/medium-power/steve-morse-model-neck

[especially versus https://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/high-power/steve-morse-model-bridge]

https://www.seymourduncan.com/picku...id_ref=5dc02e19c690c?__uuid_ref=5dc02e19c6949

Literally a 5 minute search.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

No I didn't try the Pegasus.
I don't know why. Perhaps I have some préjudice.
I my head for me it's a black metal humbucker... Dont' ask me why


Orpheo, you know all kinds of coils.
What are you thinking about the perpetual burn/C5 hybrid.
How could he sounds in comparison to the jb/fullshred? (more scooped?) or to the c5?

To be honest, I don't know the perpetual burn all that well. but what I'm guessing is that a PB/C5 hybrid will be less scooped than a C5 but will be so incredibly crunchy, biting, aggressive. Something akin to a nazgul.

And no, the pegasus is not a black metal pickup by any means. it's to my ears a great pickup; lots of nuance, a bit thin in the bottom end (i.e.: will work really well in a LP!) and a bit bolder in the midrange but still a bit more scooped compared to a PATB1 or JB. But as scooped as the C5? that's hard, man

The Black Winter is absolutely not 'for you', but it's not a one-trick-black-metal-pony at all. It does that amazingly well but it also works amazing for 80ies hair metal, glam rock and genres where you need just a bit more oompf out of your guitar because you choose to work with an amp that has less gain than usual. It's just a bit too clear for my taste. Not clear as in low output (far from it!) but it doesn't sound dirty. Just powerful.

The nazgul: now, that's aggressive and cutting and scooped. I'd steer clear from that one.

 

[Micha]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

1)

3) OP, adding additional winds to the Custom 5 will reduce its "scooped" nature a bit, taming the highs and filling in the mids the more you over-wind it. The Custom Shop will know where the sweet spot between "more output" and "scooped" is, so that's probably your best bet. Also, I doubt anyone has made a Perpetual Burn hybrid to know exactly what the result there might be. You're welcome to be the first and report back! Some of us would definitely be interested. You've also received some solid suggestions about other production pickups that have a scooped nature. The Steve's Special came to my mind, as well, when I read your desired characteristics

Thanks for your answer.
It's what I expected.
What could sound near like a c5 when not another c5.
I think it's the best chance to get what I want.

Perhaps a little bit overwounded? Perhaps we can get the same tone with more fluidity with an insulation or something?

Tonight I asked the customshop (when you Red this it's probably 1:00AM in France ^^ and 3:00PM in Santa-Barbara)

 

[OLDERBUDWISER]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

Easy peasy my man.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/yjm-fury-strat-neck?__uuid_ref=5dc02d63af39c

https://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/medium-power/steve-morse-model-neck

[especially versus https://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/high-power/steve-morse-model-bridge]

https://www.seymourduncan.com/picku...id_ref=5dc02e19c690c?__uuid_ref=5dc02e19c6949

Literally a 5 minute search.

OK, how many are high output? Maybe several hundred times more in the same 5 minutes

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

Micha, as others have pointed out, by overwinding the Custom 5 you'd be boosting mids and dirt.
Maybe what you actually need is an underwound Custom 5 -that should be brighter and clearer.
You can always boost the output with a pedal.

 

[Micha]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

Micha, as others have pointed out, by overwinding the Custom 5 you'd be boosting mids and dirt.
Maybe what you actually need is an underwound Custom 5 -that should be brighter and clearer.
You can always boost the output with a pedal.

1)
OP, adding additional winds to the Custom 5 will reduce its "scooped" nature a bit, taming the highs and filling in the mids the more you over-wind it. The Custom Shop will know where the sweet spot between "more output" and "scooped" is, so that's probably your best bet.

I don't want to get a pedal. A many things are possible with coils and magnets. And if it's possible to make that I'll go this way.

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

is your gain on the amp maxed out already?

 

[Bowtomecha]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

Easy peasy my man.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/yjm-fury-strat-neck?__uuid_ref=5dc02d63af39c

https://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/medium-power/steve-morse-model-neck

[especially versus https://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/high-power/steve-morse-model-bridge]

https://www.seymourduncan.com/picku...id_ref=5dc02e19c690c?__uuid_ref=5dc02e19c6949

Literally a 5 minute search.

Yeah the Steve Morse pickups are strange. The bridge sounds really hot and tight so you’d think it has miles of wire on it. And opposite for the neck. I gotta say that when I see the rare EBMM Morse on the wall at the store, it makes me sound very inspired.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

OK, how many are high output? Maybe several hundred times more in the same 5 minutes

Sure. But...

Which has more output? Invader or black winter? Same dcr, same mags. (Answer: invader).

Same with job vs custom 5, sh10 vs nazgul, pegasus vs perpetual burn etc etc.


Dcr says way too little to be a decent measurement for output.

 

[Micha]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

is your gain on the amp maxed out already?

No he is not.... And I don't want to.
Playing with too much gain can not be the solution.
The amp had his tone, the guitar with it's pickup has another.
Changing the complete amp tone give another response.
I don't want killer monster high gain tone. I got a certain tone. The pickup has another function.
Giving enough output to make the amp saturated to obtain THAT tone.

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

No he is not.... And I don't want to.
Playing with too much gain can not be the solution.
The amp had his tone, the guitar with it's pickup has another.
Changing the complete amp tone give another response.
I don't want killer monster high gain tone. I got a certain tone. The pickup has another function.
Giving enough output to make the amp saturated to obtain THAT tone.

a modern amp saturates more with the gain run high and low output PU than with a hot signal from the pickup and low gain settings.
But then the pickup is less compressed which might be just the right combination.

so if you use the underwound C5 suggested by eclecticsynergy with a lil more gain from you're amp the overall sound won't have higher distortion levels.
It's easier to get a scooped pickup with lower winds, as mentioned before.
the brighter pickup you obtain might help with the pinch harmonics.
The higher preamp gain might help also.
i think this is the concept behind the TB-12 screamin demon.

before you go custom i would try the production models like the perpetual burn and pegasus first and maybe a demon.
you can still make you're own hybrids out of them, later on

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

What I would do would be make a Custom/Demon hybrid since both are scooped and you like scooped. It would be lower output, opening it up for more harmonics. Then I'd try either 1 row of hexs, 1 row of filisters or both filisters. Finally I'd use a double thick magnet to make up output. A5,6,8, or 9.

 

[Micha]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

@ tonfiddler

I have a Marshall El 34 100/100 power amp with a voodoo roctron valve preamp. We cannot call it "modern high-gain amp" , although I have a hell of a powerful sound.
I do not want to push up the gain too much. It is about 53/73 in low gain mode, so I get the most possible lod rock sounds. It's less metal oriented... But a little bit I must confess.
If the sound is too saturated, it becomes too imprecise, and too heavy.
I like metal But rather a big sound like the band "black stone cherry / stuck Mojo" in a little more modern version ...... in a little heavier, aggressiver

What I'm looking for is a custom 5 Pup (scooped pickups harmonize very well with El 34 tubes, this typical marshall sound that requires to push the mids up so that the amp could sounds as it best. El 34 + scooped pups matches very well.... Just like modern amps like 5150 or engl amps that work fine well with high-gain "distortion, Duncan Custom" or other aggressiver medium oriented pickup.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

I just want to point out that an EQ pedal and utilizing your amp's tone controls could go a long way toward making ANY pickup sound more "scooped".

Also, the suggestion to look into a clean boost (like SD's Pickup Booster pedal) is a seriously solid suggestion.

The more you post, the more I'm starting to feel that a new pickup isn't really what you need. If you do anything to the Custom 5 (more winds, etc), you'll affect its tonality. With a clean boost, you can keep all of that tonality, but increase the output and improve its character under gain.

Beyond that, you could just get a regular Custom (or swap a ceramic mag into your Custom 5) and simply use an EQ pedal to fine-tune it to sound more like the Custom 5, but you'll have the added output of the ceramic mag and all the familiarity of the "Custom" family wind.

 

[Micha]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

I just want to point out that an EQ pedal and utilizing your amp's tone controls could go a long way toward making ANY pickup sound more "scooped".

Also, the suggestion to look into a clean boost (like SD's Pickup Booster pedal) is a seriously solid suggestion.

The more you post, the more I'm starting to feel that a new pickup isn't really what you need. If you do anything to the Custom 5 (more winds, etc), you'll affect its tonality. With a clean boost, you can keep all of that tonality, but increase the output and improve its character under gain.

Beyond that, you could just get a regular Custom (or swap a ceramic mag into your Custom 5) and simply use an EQ pedal to fine-tune it to sound more like the Custom 5, but you'll have the added output of the ceramic mag and all the familiarity of the "Custom" family wind.

The last part is interesting (custom regular) but i'va tested it.
It's a great pickup that's true. Bottom end and mid perfect but with so harsh highs. It really doesn't match with el34 or my rig.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

If you go with the regular Custom, you'll need an EQ pedal, that's what I'm saying...you can easily roll back the highs there, plus there's this thing called the "tone" control on most guitars that's really effective when you have a harsh pickup

Alternatively, a clean boost will give you EXACTLY what you're after (a Custom 5 with more power):

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

@ tonfiddler

I have a Marshall El 34 100/100 power amp with a voodoo roctron valve preamp. We cannot call it "modern high-gain amp" , although I have a hell of a powerful sound.
I do not want to push up the gain too much. It is about 53/73 in low gain mode, so I get the most possible lod rock sounds. It's less metal oriented... But a little bit I must confess.
If the sound is too saturated, it becomes too imprecise, and too heavy.
I like metal But rather a big sound like the band "black stone cherry / stuck Mojo" in a little more modern version ...... in a little heavier, aggressiver

What I'm looking for is a custom 5 Pup (scooped pickups harmonize very well with El 34 tubes, this typical marshall sound that requires to push the mids up so that the amp could sounds as it best. El 34 + scooped pups matches very well.... Just like modern amps like 5150 or engl amps that work fine well with high-gain "distortion, Duncan Custom" or other aggressiver medium oriented pickup.

well i don't know your amp and i guess the demon will be too bright for that amp.
But with my diezel the sound with the demon (gain on 12 o'clock) is less compressed and saturated than the Custom5 with the gain on (about 10 o'clock). it'S about the same distortion level.
as said: no glue if this will work with your rig.

 

[Micha]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

well i don't know your amp and i guess the demon will be too bright for that amp.
But with my diezel the sound with the demon (gain on 12 o'clock) is less compressed and saturated than the Custom5 with the gain on (about 10 o'clock). it'S about the same distortion level.
as said: no glue if this will work with your rig.

A diezel is exactly the opposite of mine.
My sound is more like rectifier without dirt with great typically marshall mids.
I always say a rock sound with a lot of gain and mids.
A very clear aggressiv sound, bur bluesy too.
It's very something special...the opposite of diezel that sounds round

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Perpetual burn/custom 5 hybrid or custom 5 with increased harmonics.

The last part is interesting (custom regular) but i'va tested it.
It's a great pickup that's true. Bottom end and mid perfect but with so harsh highs. It really doesn't match with el34 or my rig.

If you generally like the tone of the ceramic Custom, then an A8 magnet could be what you need.
Similar output level and big tight lows, only with smoother highs.
I would've suggested A8 earlier but I thought you specifically wanted very scooped mids.