Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

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Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

www.rodneygene.com/mp3/radio_outlaw_big_black.mp3 Here is one clip.

www.rodneygene.com/mp3/radio_outlaw_sbc.mp3 Edit: Clip 2. Definitely hear the spongy A2 and P-90 here but the amp and el84s were pushed to the brim and it shows.

Soundcloud won't upload right now either, but the link are MP3 and sound a bit better.

Forgive the playing and production this was many years ago and I did not record this myself but rather in the studio of Mad Caddies drummer (Todd) from Fat Mikes label FatWreck Chords. In a 3 piece fun-ass hard rockabilly band as guitar player / singer we had wild shows!! (hooker lyric content was true bassist story!!)...and this was an upright bass with my own pickup design using 4 Duncan jazz bass pickup coils!.

Guitar was Samick hollowbody with Phat Cats bridge pickup stock: Peavey Classic 50 and MXR Flanger.

Will get more and pics of this session later.

Cheers!!

Edit: Now i'm just getting nostalgic LOL! Can't see sh*t in this pic but this was the band. Ive got some good ones though.
roband1.jpg
 
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Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

I would consider the GFS Mean 90's (inexpensive but good reviews, sound like real P90's), or the Gibson P94's (more expensive).

Al
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

DeathMetalRob said:
Oh right. I've not seen a Phat Cat in hand, it was fitted when I got the guitar back from the guy. So, are there two magnets in a Phat Cat..?
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Yes, just like every other P-90, two bar magnets (same kind as HB's use) sitting under the coil, laying side-by-side repelling.
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

You're getting side-tracked. The question isn't whether Phat Cats are high-quality PU's or not. Duncan doesn't sell PU's that aren't. The issue is identity and target market. Phat Cats were an early entry in the HB-sized P-90 game, and it's not clear what they were intended for. Many of the people who buy them are expecting a traditional P-90 sound, which the verbage on this site says they have. They don't, and it's because almost all other P-90's have A5's. A2's give a sound that's very different than what some players are expecting. Are the tones usable? Yes, to some players they are. Some guys can do great things with them (put away your soundclips, that's not the issue). But, are some disappointed? Yes. That's what I'm trying to help the OP avoid. What's his expectations? You've apparently missed the posts from other members about how warm they think neck PC's are.

These are not drop-in PU's to make an LP, SG, or 335 sound like it has soap bar P-90's: to make an LP Std or SG Std sound like an LP Special or SG Special. Those are the guys that probably make up a large part of the HB-sized P-90 market. That's what other manufacturer's HB-sized P-90's do. And that's what most people are expecting with Phat Cats. That should be communicated to potential buyers, so they know it's coming. Something simple, like: 'These don't sound like everybody else's soap bar or dog ear P-90's, or the competitor's HB-sized P-90's. The neck PC is rich and warm, makes a great jazz PU...' Play it up as a strength, but don't let it come as a surprise.

As I've said for years, Duncan should develop Phat Cats into a line, have an A5 set for players wanting, and expecting, the classic P-90 sound. An A4 set would be nice too, Fralin's sound great. Maybe a hard rock set with A8's in the bridge. And there are boutique PU makers that combine different alnicos in the same P-90, no reason Duncan can't do that also. Target these for certain guitars and/or types of music. The current A2 version is capable of good tones in the right hands, in the right guitars, but it's not as versatile as it could, and should be. No reason to get worked up over that. They're pretty specialized, and I'm sure sales have been modest. What shouldn't happen, is players buy a set, put them in warm-toned guitars expecting to sound like early Iommi, Townsend, Santana, and West, and playing the neck PC and saying 'What??? Where did the treble go?' Or that the bridge isn't balanced all that well with the neck, EQ or volume-wise.

I'd love to see Duncan develop a PC line and dominate the market with them. Phat Cats in their current state have no hope of ever doing that. So why not revamp them instead of letting them sit on the back burner?
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

how would a bridge model with A5/ A3 sound in the neck position ?

how about same bridge model with twin A5's sound in the neck position ?
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

post toastie said:
how would a bridge model with A5/ A3 sound in the neck position ?

how about same bridge model with twin A5's sound in the neck position ?
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Those would work, both add treble, which PC's need in the neck slot in many guitars. Twin A5's have more low-end, and a little less mids than an A5/A3. PC's are good PU's, it's the stock magnets that limit their usefulness. As an end-user, you can make them more versatile to fit many more situations.
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

thanks Blueman.

i'm asking because i once read here that the Mean 90 bridge was not as good as the neck version in either position. i was wondering if the same were true for the Phat Cat...that the bridge model is not as desirable as the neck version even in either position.
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

post toastie said:
i'm asking because i once read here that the Mean 90 bridge was not as good as the neck version in either position. i was wondering if the same were true for the Phat Cat...that the bridge model is not as desirable as the neck version even in either position.
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'Not as good' in what way? Being single coils, bridge P-90's are going to be bright and thin, too much so for some players. That's why I use warmer magnets in all of my bridge P-90's (soap bar, dog ear, and HB-sized). If you like a big contrast in EQ's between bridge and neck, than you might prefer a bright P-90 bridge. With A5's, the bridge output is still good. But it definitely drops with A2's.

Once I got my neck PC dialed-in with brighter magnets, I turned to the weak bridge PC and thought: 'Oh my god, how am I going to get these louder and fuller-sounding?' Seemed like mission impossible, but again, I was able to do it with magnets. Magnets have a much bigger influence on a P-90's tone than they do with a HB. In a HB, there's 1/2 mag per coil; in a P-90, it's 2 mags per coil, fours times as much. So you can do a lot with magnets and P-90's, much more than most PU makers are going to spend the time developing. PU makers are all about the wind, and magnets are a minor consideration. For us end-users, it's the oppsite. Magnets give us the power to re-EQ a PU and make it fit our guitar/wood/amp/playing style.
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

not as desirable as in "bright and thin" like you mentioned. the response here (i don't remember the thread or respondent) was that even when used in the neck position a bridge Mean 90 was not that great.
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

post toastie said:
not as desirable as in "bright and thin" like you mentioned. the response here (i don't remember the thread or respondent) was that even when used in the neck position a bridge Mean 90 was not that great.
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The vast majority of the posts I've seen here for Mean 90's have been positive, bridge and neck.
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

I've got several bridge and neck Mean 90's in SG's and LP's and don't have any complaints about either.
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

so i can expect the same good results of a Phat Cat Bridge put into the neck position i guess ?
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

post toastie said:
so i can expect the same good results of a Phat Cat Bridge put into the neck position i guess ?
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Since a PC bridge is wound hotter than the neck model, and the neck model is wound too hot for an A2 magnet in many guitars...what are you trying to accomplish? Are you swapping magnets in it? Even so, putting the bridge model in the neck just reduces treble. Do you have a PC now? What guitar? What kind of sound are you going for?
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

bought one from a forum member already swapped to A3/A5. he threw in another A5, so i have those two to experiment with. Classic rock type stuff mostly. just wondering what i can expect.
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

post toastie said:
bought one from a forum member already swapped to A3/A5. he threw in another A5, so i have those two to experiment with. Classic rock type stuff mostly. just wondering what i can expect.
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Okay, since you already have a bridge PC, you've got a good mag combo for brightness, so it should work out well in the neck slot, much better than if it had the stock A2's.

Now try it and report back!
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

Why is it that the person with the strongest, most critical and most vocal views on phat cats and pretty much every other pickup in the Duncan line as well as how to make pickups, how to wire guitars correctly and what constitutes perfect tone has the fewest (read non-existent) soundclips?

This constant pontificating gets so repetitive.

Hell, i'd even settle for a poorly positioned iphone recording, or something using the stock computer mic.
 
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Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

blueman335 said:
Okay, since you already have a bridge PC, you've got a good mag combo for brightness, so it should work out well in the neck slot, much better than if it had the stock A2's.

Now try it and report back!
Click to expand...

oh yea the guitar is a strat.
 
Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

gibson175 said:
Why is it that the person with the strongest, most critical and most vocal views on phat cats and pretty much every other pickup in the Duncan line as well as how to make pickups, how to wire guitars correctly and what constitutes perfect tone has the fewest (read non-existent) soundclips?
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Maybe it's because I've owned 11 Phat Cats over the years (I went thru an intense P-90 phase) that I feel I can add something to the discussion on them. How many other players have had more than one? The last time I had a debate with a guy about the merits of Phat Cats (he was a big proponent), it turned out he'd never even owned one himself. I also have an assortment of soap bar, dog ear, and HB-sized P-90's from Duncan and other manufacturers that give me a good comparison.

As a long-term forum member, you know that with the soundclips Duncan has for their PU's, that you can't expect to buy that PU yourself and get the same sound. There's too many variables in wood, guitar design, string gauge, type of pick, guitar set-up, amps, tubes, speakers, pedals, playing style, etc to think that a PU alone can give you the sound you want. I have never listened to any forum member's soundclips for that reason, they're of no use to me. It's very unlikely I could replicate anyone's tones. When I want to hear guitar playing online, I go to Spotify or YouTube, not here. To me this website is for learning; it has provided me with a wealth of ideas and insights; I take those and run with them, and report back on how it's worked for me. I have a bunch of guitars, a lot of PU's and alternative wirings. I like to experiment and share what I've learned. I'm not an authority on anything, but I do have a lot of experience with certain things. I've helped many forum members in threads and PM's.
 
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Re: Phat Cats on a Epiphone SG

gibson175 said:
Clips (any clip) or it didn't happen.
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I don't listen to anyone's clips, yours included. The absolute last thing in the world I'd want to do is go and listen to clips of anyone I'm have an online disagreement with. Certainly you have better things to do.
 
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