Phrygian Mode

[Stratovarious]

ok so , Ive been trying to get my young mind around Modes, and I hear alot about this "Phrygian" mode

and I read that

B Phrygian, is E Harmonic Minor, with accents over the 5th which is the dominant, which is B, so youd play a B minorchord under it to make it Phrygian


so would the same be with E Phrygian, youd play an A Harmonic Minor, and since E is the dominant/5th, youd play it over an E minor chord

so have I got the idea right?

 

[catt main]

Re: Phrygian Mode

phrygian is the seventh version of the major scale. just start playing a major scale on the 7th and end on the 7th.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Phrygian Mode

phrigian is a scale that starts on the third interval, instead of the first, and ends on the octave of the third, instead of starting on the first interval and ending on the eighth. For example, E phrigian is the C major scales, but played from E to E, instead of from C to C.

Another way of looking at it is, that you would treat the third as if it was the first for a phrigian feel. If you did the same with the fifth it would be mixilydian. You can do this to any key.

First=ionian (actually a major scale)
second=dorian
third=phrigian
4th= lydian
5th= mixilydian
6th= aonionain(iirc) same as natrual minor.
7th=I can't remember

You have the natural, melodic, and harmonic minors. The main diffrence is the use of minor or major 7th (leading tone). Natrual minor has a minor 7th going up and down. harmonic uses a major 7th, and melodic does too. But the difference between harmonic and melodic minor is that one of them (I don't recall which right off the top of my head) has the major 7th going up but the minor 7th going down. Phrigian in the related key is similar to the natrual minor in terms of interval spacing, but you have the minor second, were as the minors will have major 2nd's. When phrigian is played as if it's the home key, it gives a spanish, latin, feel to the music. You could play in phrigian, but place emphasis on it's related fifth, and come down to the home key as the turn around. This will sound Al Dimola (sp?) or Satana like. But a more subtle use of phrigian is EC's cocain. Clapton ofton blends blues scales, related dorian modes, and the related minor modes, together seemlessly, and without it being contrived. Malmstein (sp?) will ofton use all the final intervals from the 6th, up to the octave chomatically, going into and out of dorian, phrygian, and minor modes, in rapid fire fashion.

 

[Stratovarious]

Re: Phrygian Mode

No , see thats what I thought at first aswell, but I read that Modes are not Scales, Modes are sounds, like

No Matter what "Mode" you play over E minor, it will always sounds Aeolian

see even if you play a Major Scale from D to D, its just a C-major scale that started and ended on D, its not Dorian .

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Phrygian Mode

No, and yes, the interval spacing through each step from octave to octave changes when you re-assign, say the third interval, to become the first/8th interval. Now your relationship between the one interval, and it's sub-dominate, it's dominate, it's relative minor/major, and it's leading tone, and so forth is altered. This changes the feel and mood of the music. Yes, it's the same notes from C to C, or D to D, or what ever, but you now emphasising different notes, as your root note, and it's fifth, and so forth.....

If you play D to D with no sharps or flats it's dorian. If you play D to D with a C# and F# it's D major. If you play D to D with a F natural and C# it's harmonic minor. You also have to consider the Bflat if it's a minor scale or a dorian mode. Also what chord structure are you playing this over, or additionally what chord progression is going on, could determine if it's modal or just major/minor.

Then there's jazz type applications with more than tertian harmony aspects............

 

[Osensei]

Re: Phrygian Mode

On a totally unrelated side note:

To hell with min chords and phrygian BS! :chairfall If I had my way, no song would have a minor 7th or a maj7th chord in it! I would pass a law forbidding it! :chairfall

Strangely enough, that's just the opposite of my sentiments when I was younger. I thought maj 7ths and min 7ths chords were da schiznitch back then. In my limited youthful mind, the only purpose of having dom 7th, aug, dim chord types was so that you had something to resolve to the next Maj 7 or Min 7 chord. I thought the Maj 7th and Min 7th were the meat of the tune! :chairfall

That's because those chords sounded so mellow. Naturally, I assumed that because they were so mellow sounding that putting lines together for them would yield mellow results! Wrong! In truth the most beautiful lines I've ever put together have been against Dom 7, Dim, Aug type chords. :chairfall

Seriously, you need all chords types, I know! But its uncanny how sweet lines can be that are played against dom 7ths, dim, and aug chord types. It's just the opposite of what one might expect.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Phrygian Mode

Well, the terms "major" and "minor" are the traditional terms to decribe if the interval spacing is a 1/2 step, or a full step, apart. It's sounds more complex than it really is.

A minor chord is simply a triad (made up of stacked thirds) with a minor third. This means that the interval space between the 2nd and the third interval is a 1/2 step.

A regular major chord has a major third, meaning the interval space between the 2nd and the third is a full step.

A 7th chord has an additional third stacked onto the existing triad, and is a 4 note chord, instead of a three note chord (a 9th chord has 5 stacked thirds, an 11th chord 6 stacked thirds, and so on...).

A regular major chord with the additional 7th added is simply called a 7th chord. For example, G7. It's never called G major 7th chord, or a G minor 7th, as this would cause confusion with G chords that are very different sounding, and possibly related to a different key or mode.

The interval spacing from the sixth to the 7th interval, when you add a 7th to a regular triad is actuall only a 1/2 step, or a minor interval, but you mustn't name it a minor 7th chord, because it would not discriminate between the use of a major or minor third.

A Gmin7 is actually a G minor triad with the same minor 7th interval added.

A Gmaj7 is actually a regular G major triad (with a major third) but the 7th is raised a 1/2 step to match the interval spacing of regular major scales.

The use of particular 7th chords is closely related to the key or mode your playing in, and the required interval spacing. The same applies to modes.

IMO, The best way for most electric guitarists to use modes, and keep track of modes and other key related complexities, is to use the blues scale(pentatonic minor) as the foundation of everything, and add certian notes, or retract certian notes, from that.

Jimi Hendrix never had any formal training, but was the absolute master of instictively incorporating modes, and complex chord voicings into his playing. Many players that we think of using mostly simplistic pentatonic scales, and a very simplist approach, are actually very good at this, because the blues scale lends it's self as very flexable base.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Phrygian Mode

phrigian is a scale that starts on the third interval, instead of the first, and ends on the octave of the third, instead of starting on the first interval and ending on the eighth. For example, E phrigian is the C major scales, but played from E to E, instead of from C to C.

Another way of looking at it is, that you would treat the third as if it was the first for a phrigian feel. If you did the same with the fifth it would be mixilydian. You can do this to any key.

First=ionian (actually a major scale)
second=dorian
third=phrigian
4th= lydian
5th= mixilydian
6th= aonionain(iirc) same as natrual minor.
7th=I can't remember

.

7 = Locrian Mode

 

[Kivitel]

Re: Phrygian Mode

The Locrian, also known as the WTFian.

 

[gOgIver]

Re: Phrygian Mode

IMO, The best way for most electric guitarists to use modes, and keep track of modes and other key related complexities, is to use the blues scale(pentatonic minor) as the foundation of everything, and add certian notes, or retract certian notes, from that.

Jimi Hendrix never had any formal training, but was the absolute master of instictively incorporating modes, and complex chord voicings into his playing. Many players that we think of using mostly simplistic pentatonic scales, and a very simplist approach, are actually very good at this, because the blues scale lends it's self as very flexable base.

That's vault worthy!