Pickup Bobbin Material

[HM_Stratocaster]

Hey guys, it’s been a long time! I have a question about bobbin material. I’m potentially ordering from the custom shop. I know the reason SD uses the humbucker bobbin material they do because the resonance is a bit synonymous with the sound. I have to say that from my own personal extensive research I find it to be true. Pickups wound exactly the same way with the Fender standard flatwork and a bar magnet are darker sounding. Where my question lies is in comparing similar DiMarzios to Duncan’s. I have to say I find the DiMarzios are a little un-reactive to the guitar it self than the Duncans for my personal tastes. However, the Duncans seem to be a little over-reactive. I play high gain with a full stack and incorporate feedback into my solos. So, this is where these things become much more noticeable than perhaps someone who plays clean and quietly at a small gig. (Not judging. I love Dire Straits) Is there any material that’s perhaps an in between available from the custom shop?

Thanks! \m/

-HM

 

[Masta' C]

Bro, you are way overthinking this. Duncans aren't "more reactive" compared to DiMarzio's because of their bobbin material.

I could wind you 2 identical pickups on different bobbin materials and, as long as they featured the same type of wire, coil geometry, number of winds, and material composition of the remaining components (screws, slugs, magnet, etc), I *GUARANTEE* you would not be able to tell them apart, even under ultra-high gain!

Some older materials, like butyrate, were temperature sensitive and couldn't be wax potted quite as easily as modern ABS/polycarbonate bobbins, but that doesn't mean the bobbin material itself had any effect on the response or tone.

 

[HM_Stratocaster]

I see. You have actually done this test yourself and tried it on stage in a band with a real amp at the same venue?

 

[Masta' C]

I think you and I have very different understandings of what "test" means, lol. Whatever... You do you

 

[beaubrummels]

I thought Strat type pickups don't have a bobbin, the magnetic poles are held by the flatwork and the wire is wound directly onto the magnets. I haven't heard of Duncan using humbucker bobbin material for single coils, unless you just mean now they use polycarbonate wherever they have plastics? (Not even sure that's 100% true.) Haven't heard of bobbin material having any resonance either.

 

[HM_Stratocaster]

Some of the Tom Anderson pickups have their bobbins made up like a strat but with a bar magnet. The parallel axis models (outside of the pole pieces being different) are basically made this way as well. I found both of them to have too little attack even after swapping magnets. They’re very good at preventing feedback, but I kinda like my pups just on the brink of harmonic feedback.

 

[HM_Stratocaster]

The Stag-Mag puts staggered strat pole pieces in a regular Duncan humbucker bobbin. I really wanted to like that in the neck, but ended up hating it. :/

 

[Mincer]

SD bobbin material hasn't been consistent over the years, and has never come from one specific source. But I could put 'resonance' down to how much wax was used (if any) to pot it.

 

[HM_Stratocaster]

Fair enough, I have suspected that DiMarzios could be more heavily potted. Between the many models I have tried between both brands my general consensus has been that the DiMarzios (while they sound great) just don’t sing the same way when you’ve got eight speakers vibrating the hell out of them.

 

[freefrog]

As mentioned by Masta' C, coils around butyrate bobbins are typically unpotted, since butyrate tends to melt at high temperature (with a terrible smell of vomit, anecdotically). They are also better to be wound with less tension, or the bobbin will finally warp.

No wax potting AND less winding tension can certainly ease the "resonance" of coils.

On the "unreactive" aspect of DiMarzio PU's : I decipher it as being due to eddy currents. For me, DiMarzio pickups often involve recipes and materials promoting such Foucault currents, more than other brands do. Their famous "vocal" response can be attributed to that so it's not necessarily a flaw... But to me, it's due to parts of the magnetic circuit and not to bobbin materials.

Regarding single coils wound around a bobbin with a bar magnet underneath: typically, they have a wider/flatter resonant peak (a lower Q factor) but also more inductance (since metallic slugs are more permeable than AlNiCo rods) and a weaker magnetic field at the surface of the poles... Three times weaker typically than with standard AlNiCo rods.
If such pickups lack of attack, it comes from the two last specs above among others - parasitic capacitance can have an effect too, and is increased by potting, incidentally. And the big poles of Tom Anderson single coils also slower transients because they cause... eddy currents, BTW. ;-)

FWIW. :-D

 

[Masta' C]

On the "unreactive" aspect of DiMarzio PU's : I decipher it as being due to eddy currents. For me, DiMarzio pickups often involve recipes and materials promoting such Foucault currents, more than other brands do. Their famous "vocal" response can be attributed to that so it's not necessarily a flaw... But to me, it's due to parts of the magnetic circuit and not to bobbin materials.

Exactly :beerchug: