Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

[SixTh]

Hi all,

I'm currently considering to get a pair of humbucker covers for my SH-2 and SH-6 in my Ibanez. I first planned to get them solely for optical reasons, but since I started researching if they would make a difference to the sound, I also started to like the difference in tone, as far as I can tell.

I've read through some threads on different forums and found a couple of Youtube videos in which people compare both options, like these two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-Fn8g1RmVU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsnAHCqvfeQ

And I have to say that there does seem to be an audible difference and I actually liked all versions with the covers on more than those without.

However, I still have trouble to pin-point exactly what the difference is that these covers make. The top-end seems to get a bit more creamy without actually losing presence, the low mids and/or bass seem to increase, without making the sound muddy. The output seems to change, but I can't really tell how exactly.

Since I haven't been able to find any clear info on this online:

Do you have any experiences with how pickup covers will change the tone, exactly?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

Some say it is a little brighter without them. By the time I played one with covers, uninstalled the covers and then put the strings back on, I doubt I could tell the difference. I always go for the look I am after, and if it isn't bright enough, use the tone controls on the amp.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

An important distinction here is the quality of the covers. Nickel silver covers make a very small difference, as noted by Mincer. But cheap brass covers (which are chrome plated so you don't realize they are brass until they get scratched) definitely muffle the highs.
Personally I would say the difference between a good cover and no cover is real but subtle.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

Its just a little bit of high frequency rolloff.....assuming that you have managed to set the pickup identically to what you would have otherwise.
But typically the cover makes the pickup bobbins sit lower in the ring, and the screws be further out.....so sometimes its hard to know. A good quality cover will be only a minor tonal change anyhow, and looks tends to be the biggest difference really.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

IME covers on is like bumping the tone control from 10 to 9.5 with the covers off.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

.assuming that you have managed to set the pickup identically to what you would have otherwise..

I find this is the more the difference that people are hearing. Usually after they take the cover off they set the pickup a tad higher so they think it becomes a bit louder. Also generally a pickup with a cover on it the screws are hung out a bit while when they are off they are closer to the bobbing. These changes are much more pronounced than the subtle effect of a cover.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

Not enough difference to matter against the real reason you'd have your pickups covered or not (the looks)

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

Some say it is a little brighter without them. By the time I played one with covers, uninstalled the covers and then put the strings back on, I doubt I could tell the difference. I always go for the look I am after, and if it isn't bright enough, use the tone controls on the amp.

+1

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

Its just a little bit of high frequency rolloff.....assuming that you have managed to set the pickup identically to what you would have otherwise.
But typically the cover makes the pickup bobbins sit lower in the ring, and the screws be further out.....so sometimes its hard to know. A good quality cover will be only a minor tonal change anyhow, and looks tends to be the biggest difference really.

Well, if the pups are lower and the screws are extended, that would make the pups sound a bit brighter...contrary to what everyone claims.

Typically when covers are put on, the pups themselves are not put back at a different height and the screws are not extended.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

However, I still have trouble to pin-point exactly what the difference is that these covers make. The top-end seems to get a bit more creamy without actually losing presence, the low mids and/or bass seem to increase, without making the sound muddy. The output seems to change, but I can't really tell how exactly.

At most, the covers WILL "cause the top-end to get a bit more creamy", a very tiny bet. It will NOT increase the mids and bass!! There is NO amplifier built into any cover. This is just a trick your ears play on you. As the very high frequencies are reduced, the other frequencies, by comparison, sound louder but they are actually not affected by the cover. And NO there is no change in the output...just a very slight reduction in the highest frequencies.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

I have the same pickups both with and without covers (Fokin/BKP) and I can’t tell a difference.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

Well, if the pups are lower and the screws are extended, that would make the pups sound a bit brighter...contrary to what everyone claims.

Typically when covers are put on, the pups themselves are not put back at a different height and the screws are not extended.

If you measure the pickups from the strings, you will typically make the top a certain height from the strings - which is the typical way people will set up pickups if we're being honest. As the cover sits higher than the bobbin, the wire part of the pickup will now sit lower for that method.
And screws nominally sit level with whatever is the top of the pickup too - this goes for pickups sold as well.....all you have to do is look at the pictures on the Duncan site here to see what I mean. If you take a cover off, the screws look 'abnormally' high. So to maintain the same look they too will be sitting differently with relation to the coil.

As to the tone......well I find that as you move the pickup closer to the strings but with the poles low you get more treble or rasp than with pickup lower but with the screws more extended......but maybe my hearing is different to the typical muso who has spent a lot of time in front of loud amps.

 

[freefrog]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

IME, some "quantifiable differences" due to a cover are...

*-1 to - 2 dB on the "resonant peak" of the coils, with more effect on the slugs than on the screws (for obvious reasons, although a coil with screws passing through a cover is also affected by Foucault currents);
*a greater difference in the extreme high range, with a modification of secondary resonances if the tested coil exhibits such a thing for whatever reason. That's also why a cover tends to change the "relationship between coils" in a humbucker:
*a slight compression of the attack.

See the related screenshot below, obtained from a pickup excited by an ultra low impedance induction coil : pink and red lines = uncovered pickup. Blue and green = the same pair or humbucker coils tamed by a cover. FWIW (= 2 cents of lab tests hastily shared a sunday morning).

NOTES:
-obviously, the tonal result will always depend on the actual pickup and cover used. Chrome covers increase the measured inductance while nickel ones diminish it, for example... And [bad VS good covers] can create [drastic differences VS practically no perceived difference]... whose amplitude depends on the rest of the signal path and rig;
-the EQing effect of covers on resonant peaks affects the harmonics generated and not the fundamental frequencies produced by our strings so such measurements are to relativize...

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

As to the tone......well I find that as you move the pickup closer to the strings but with the poles low you get more treble or rasp than with pickup lower but with the screws more extended......but maybe my hearing is different to the typical muso who has spent a lot of time in front of loud amps.

Yes, you get more treble. You also get more mids and bass and amplitude. EVERYTHING gets louder. But the mids and the bass are increased to a greater extent than the treble (this may have a great deal to do with the physiology of hearing).

As you move a pup (coils) further away from the strings but raise the poles so that they stay the same distance from the strings, the tone will get brighter because of the greater loss of the bass and mids.

A metal cover on the pup does seem to slightly reduce the highs and harshness of a pup, so there is a trade-off. I think that the reduction of the highs due to the metal cover is greater than the reduction of everything else due to the lower physical position of the pup (after all, it is only less than 0.50 mm lower...the thickness of the cover).

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup covers and quantifiable differences in tone

I've just been working on 2 guitars with minihumbuckers with too much treble content. By far the less treble option was with them further away from the strings and the screws further out. Same with every strat pickup I've ever done the same test with (but without the pole adjustment)