Pickup height: A "failed" experiment

[FerMetalhead1]

Hi everyone!

Today I don't come to ask something, I come to share some insights I got from an experiment. As some of you know, I own a Fender Start Jimmy Vaughan signature, loaded with a 59/Custom Hybrid in bridge and 2 ssl-1's on neck and middle positions. Overall, I'm satisfied with this guitar's sound, the only problem I found was the mismatched output of the pickups, specially between the singles and the humbucker.

I mainly use the bridge pup for some riffing and soloing, and in very specific cases, I use the single coils. However, a volume variation is very noticeable when changing between positions. I gotta say the humbucker was pretty damn close to the strings since it is a regular size one, not a trembucker, in order not to lose volume on the 1st and 6th strings. The result: it overpowered the single coils. I could use a compressor, but I always have to sacrifice some dynamics, which I find very important.

To solve this situation, I adjusted firat the height of the single coils, making sure each one matched in terms of volume and that they weren't that close to the strings. Next, I adjusted the humbucker height using the two height screws, making sure its volume was balanced in relation to the other pups. Then, I made fine adjustments on the screw pole heads.

The result was pretty disappointing: while there was a reasonable distance between the ssl-1's and the strings, the 59/C was now pretty damn FAR from the strings, almost quarter of an inch, not to mention the pickup ended in a really fucked up position with some pole pieces really hight and some other really low. Sonically, the sound lost some output and low end, having a pretty annoying trebly and weak sound, but the overall guitar sound was now balanced whatsoever.

Maybe I did wrong by adjusting the neck and middle pickups first. I did this to priorize the lowest output pickups. Unfortunately, I lost some of the greatest features I had from the humbucker. I'll try undoing the made adjustments and start from scratch. I'll now try adjusting the humbucker height with the screw pole pieces flushed to the pickup. Then, since SC's are low output ones, I'll adjust them without fear of losing an important amount of sustain.

I accept any suggestions from you, just consider I can't buy new pickups for the nonce. If I get any other insight, I'll update the thread asap.

Cheers!

 

[Bogner]

Finding the right pickup height and getting the right sound can be a process and sometimes you get lucky and it is quick. I always use a clean tone initially as the sound to get things right before I go to a gain tone. If I spend much time tweaking I always let it set and come back to it with fresh ears. Sometimes a little time away can do wonders on the micro adjustments. If you are happy, let it set and come back and still are happy then you are on the right track. Don't forget to mess with the volume and tone controls a bit in your measuring as well as blended tones or split tones. I personally would be more interested in finding sounds I liked from each pickup above and beyond getting them all blanked with each other. I have found when I do what I mentioned it all somehow comes together and the balance is pretty close to being there if not there from the various things I mentioned. Good luck!

 

[AlexR]

I think the issue is that you're expecting there to be a solution with that can be found with height adjustment - despite the huge gulf of pickup output.

What you have here is just the wrong choice of pickups if you're wanting balanced volumes/outputs. So you need to make a decision about what is the important aspect you want to have.

 

[Teleplayer]

Sometimes this tone aspect can be related to the tone and volume control pot values. Do you still use the standard 250k control pots? If so, the humbucker is unlikely to sound weak and thin. Changing pot values may not be a complete solution, but it can make a difference for a pickup that sounds thin when it's positioned far from the strings.

Generally I agree with AlexR, about the reason for this. It's hard to match the output levels of pickups that have fundamentally different specs.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Vintage singles are not going to balance with a medium output humbucker. If your priority is the bridge pickup, adjust it to where it sounds good, then replace the singles with higher output pickups, like SSL-6.

Also, adjust the humbucker’s height with your ears, not your eyes. The pole piece alignment does not have to be perfect.

 

[Mincer]

SSL-1s are pretty low in output compared to the Hybrid. With HSS, you have to either accept the volume imbalance if you want traditional single coil tone, or you need to sacrifice the vintage tone by using higher output singles. Height has nothing to do with it...as far as height goes, vintage singles have a height that sounds best. Any closer, you lose that tone and bad things start happening.

 

[Ascension]

Have tried that combo in a guitar and it didn't work for me. Like the SSL-1's like the Hybrid alone but they just did not play well together. They are just not a tonal match. the Hybrid is to brash in full bucker and split was not pleasing with the SSL-1's. Running a A 2 mag would help some but really need a different combo. SSL-5's or the flat poll 6 with the Hybrid or a different humbucker with the SSl-1's.. Had decent luck with the Perpetual Burn and also the Custom 5 with singles. You would think the hybrid would be great with singles on paper but in my experience it has not been.

 

[GuitarStv]

If you set a compressor pedal just right, you can even out the volume differences between mismatched pickups and just set your pups where they sound best.

 

[Benjy_26]

It's sort of the nature of the HSS beast to have a volume difference between the humbucker and the singles. You can somewhat minimize the issue by using louder than vintage singles and a PAF in the bridge, or you can lean into the effect and use the bridge as a solo boost.

 

[Demanic]

It's sort of the nature of the HSS beast to have a volume difference between the humbucker and the singles. You can somewhat minimize the issue by using louder than vintage singles and a PAF in the bridge, or you can lean into the effect and use the bridge as a solo boost.

Or just use a clean boost when running the singles.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

 

[Mincer]

Or just use a clean boost when running the singles.

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This is how I do it. I use a Pickup Booster pedal. But another option is something like Hot Rails for the neck & middle.

 

[Blille]

I had this combination in a strat and loved it. A SSL-2 in the neck and a hybrid in the bridge.

I liked the output difference. I consistently use the neck pickup for the cleaner/quieter parts in most of my guitars.

I agree with folks. Don’t think it can be solved with height. An SSL6 may get you there.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I concur - wrong combination pf pickups.
Setting a humbucker way low doesn't just lower the level, it affects the tone as well.
And the voicing of the Hybrid is practically the polar opposite of SSL-1s to begin with.

HSS players generally like a more powerful bridge pickup as a boost for leads.
If you don't, and you want to use vintage output singlecoils, then you want a vintage output humbucker at the bridge.

I know that isn't what you wanted to hear, OP, but it's the way things are.
A beefier bridge sound is the idea that led to HSS guitars. That's their thing.

Sure, you could mitigate the disparity with compression or by kicking on a clean boost whenever you use the singles.
But those are just compensating for a pickup mismatch.
IMO you'd be better off with a 59B, a Pearly Gates, or another relatively low-output hmbucker, maybe even a neck version.

I know you said purchase wasn't an option right now.
But perhaps you could trade the Hybrid for one that's better suited to your needs.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

I donno, my main guitar has a pair of SSL2s and a 59/C (polished A5), and while there is some volume difference between the hb and singles, it's not enough to be annoying. The hybrid is probably borderline regarding output what one might get away with if there are vintage style singles in the other slots.

I like to set pups pretty low anyway (probably also important on a HSS as there is more magnetic pull across the board).

 

[Mincer]

Some people can't stand any volume difference. This is why pedals like the Pickup Booster were invented, as well as more powerful pickups. A bridge pickup like a 59 is a good choice with vintage singles, though, but if you use a lot of gain, you will have to boost it somewhere else. A compressor pedal can help even out the dynamics, but robs the touch-sensitivity of using vintage single coils. Always tradeoffs.

 

[FerMetalhead1]

Hi everyone! Thanks for all your feedback, I've been reading you and I found some interesting tips to deal with unbalanced pickups. In the end, I decided to do this:
I Installed a push pull pot to wire the neck and middle pups in parallel/series. Once the switch is up, both pickups will work as a humbucker, giving a fuller and darker, yet clear and nice sound. Now, the sound of my strat is somewhat balanced, and there was no need to change pickups at all. I really recommend you trying this mod on your strats (especially on strats with vintage style pups), it may help expanding the instrument's versatility and help you save a few bucks. You won't get the exact same sound of an actual humbucker, but that doesn't mean it will be bad. It really helps beefing the tone when using distortion for lead lines and playing jazzy stuff when playing clean.

Thanks everyone!!

 

[Aceman]

It's sort of the nature of the HSS beast to have a volume difference between the humbucker and the singles. You can somewhat minimize the issue by using louder than vintage singles and a PAF in the bridge, or you can lean into the effect and use the bridge as a solo boost.

My Lonestar has Texas Specials and a Pearly Gates. It's pretty ok.

 

[marcello252]

after all my experiments with ssl1 on neck I can say a Paf like HB with an A3 has a level pretty comparable, with an A2 you still have a level manageble, A4 is the limit, It's been years since I used a hybrid (I started experimenting with mismatched coils back in the days here in the forum when the idea came out ) but I don't remember a level so much higher than a standard 59 , so I think the same considerations could be applied

 

[Juanhanglo]

I never understood the expectation that all pickups, especially different styles, be the same volume.

A bridge humbucker should be louder than the 2 singles. Why?

Play with overdrive on the bucker and flip to the others for cleans or cleaner stuff. No need to hit pedals or channels.

there are very few true singles that can equal even a vintage humbucker. Mini hums are about as as high as singles get.

This is an expectation issue.

Adjust the bucker to where it sounds good on its own, and then auto split it for the b/m sound

 

[marcello252]

It's not that simple, especially if you don't use a full on distortion, I don't look for a perfect identical volume level but I don't want a big jump simply because it sounds annoying