Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

[Gibson 1964]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

I appreciate your wisdom, and respect your experience—not such a fan of the attitude, though.

You started with the attitude, being condescending about what you didn't know.

I mean, jeez… Did I commit a pickup crime just 'cause I like A5s?

No, but you were rude.

In any case, I didn't say your suggestion was silly. I just think 48k output seems somewhat superfluous.

Based on my experience with the Lace Drop & Gains, I wouldn't describe them as "thin," though I did find that they lacked clarity under high gain (despite what everyone else seems to report).

If that is the case, I'd suggest you are having problems downstream of your pickups.

also, 48k is not an output. Resistance =/= output.

Your position was misguided, and you have a few errors and if you are operating off a specs sheet, or biased against a magnet. That is just plain absurd. It is taking a component that is only one little piece of a pickup and listening with the eyes not the ears. To do so is categorically absurd as the eyes don't truly hear.

Also, your initial reply to me came off as just plain rude, and dismissive.

A magnet has no sound on its own, but a magnet is a piece of the voicing. there are soft, sounding muddy ceramic pickups, and bright enough to hurt your ears. It is a small piece of the puzzle, but a piece. A very thick pickup that has just enough treble would lose some by switching to a5, thus having not enough. Not enough treble = muddy.

I am beginning to think you are a troll as well. Or at least really rude. I regret taking the time to try to help you.

 

[Punkrot]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

You started with the attitude, being condescending about what you didn't know.


No, but you were rude.

If that is the case, I'd suggest you are having problems downstream of your pickups.

also, 48k is not an output. Resistance =/= output.

Your position was misguided, and you have a few errors and if you are operating off a specs sheet, or biased against a magnet. That is just plain absurd. It is taking a component that is only one little piece of a pickup and listening with the eyes not the ears. To do so is categorically absurd as the eyes don't truly hear.

Also, your initial reply to me came off as just plain rude, and dismissive.

A magnet has no sound on its own, but a magnet is a piece of the voicing. there are soft, sounding muddy ceramic pickups, and bright enough to hurt your ears. It is a small piece of the puzzle, but a piece. A very thick pickup that has just enough treble would lose some by switching to a5, thus having not enough. Not enough treble = muddy.

I am beginning to think you are a troll as well. Or at least really rude. I regret taking the time to try to help you.

I'm sorry. I really wasn't trying to come off that way. Nor was I trying to be rude. Sometimes "trying to be clever" and "sounding like a dick" can be hard to differentiate on the internet. Obviously my attempts at the former resulted in an appearance of the latter.

Sorry everybody.

Anyway, if my ideas about magnets and whatnot are wrong, telling me that I'm "misguided" rather than just giving me some better information isn't likely to change my mind. After all, courtesy is the KY Jelly of social intercourse, right? And no matter how correct any of us are, to everyone else our input is just "someone's opinion on the internet."

Back to the questions at hand:

I would be surprised to find a "downstream" problem considering that the lack of definition I experienced with the D&Gs happened through multiple rigs (tube amps and digital environments) with various settings. Even my cables are some fancy-pants braided Monster Studio something-or-others which I spent way too much on. The D&Gs were definitely a big step up from the stock Epi pups, though (no surprise). Maybe they just didn't jive with the baritone? Anyway, the Pegasus is WAY clearer, but lacks the cajones which the D&G definitely had. I also found the D&G to be pretty dark (as in, dialing the treble up way higher than I've ever had to before on everything I plugged it into), and they also emphasized the upper harmonics, which made things sound noisier overall. Even palm mutes had a kind of bright sizzle over them which I didn't love. And I thought the cleans were pretty mediocre out of the neck pup, despite everyone glowing over how great the neck D&G is supposed to be. Maybe mine were duds…?

I do realize that resistance doesn't equal output. I just used the wrong word.

That said, I am actually somewhat confused as to everyone saying that the magnet "has no sound." Duncan's own product write-ups describe Alnico magnets as "warm" all the time, especially when comparing them to ceramics. Even if they don't "have a sound," they do "contribute to the sound" along with other factors, don't they? Or don't they? I don't really know. But in my experience (which I've no doubt is far more limited than a lot of folks on these forums), I've found ceramic pickups to sound kinda colder with more of a buzzsaw thing under high gain. But maybe I just haven't tried the right ones. Who knows…?!

 

[Mincer]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

Simma down everyone.

I think the problem is that the bass tightens up, which is sort of what the Pegasus does. I would think a looser sound is needed here, not the super tight progressive metal sound.

 

[Artie]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

I had considered the Nazgul, but in demo clips it seemed too cold and djenty for my tastes.

It's funny how different people hear things different ways. This pup is super-hot to my ears. And the weird thing is, if I roll the volume back, say from 10 down to 6, it cleans up without losing any actual volume. It's the closest thing to a tube amp, built into a pickup, that I've ever heard. Very cool. I mean, hot.

 

[Punkrot]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

Simma down everyone.

I think the problem is that the bass tightens up, which is sort of what the Pegasus does. I would think a looser sound is needed here, not the super tight progressive metal sound.

It's funny, but I've been thinking the same thing.

I'm sure this is kind of a weird exercise, but bear with me here…

Let's say we're gonna rank pickup clarity under high gain. We call the Pegasus a 10/10 (at least, it's the clearest by far I've ever heard), and my old stock Epiphone pickups are 1/10 (they are definitely the least clear I've ever heard, those poor things). In my guitar, at least, the Lace Drop and Gains I would probably rank as a 6 or 7.

What if we did the same for "heaviness" under high gain? Obviously this is even more subjective than "clarity," but I'd probably say Pegasus 5 or 6, my old Epis maybe 7, D&Gs 8 or 9.

With all that in mind, here's the money question: Do "heaviness" and "clarity" occupy different end of a spectrum? Or are they separate factors?

If they're separate, do they compete with one another at all? Or is a 10 clarity, 10 heaviness pickup theoretically possible? Also, does lack of clarity translate into an increased perception of "heaviness"?

At least, that's what's currently occupying my mind in the Epic Quest for Ultimate Tone.

Sorry, too many questions…

 

[Punkrot]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

It's funny how different people hear things different ways. This pup is super-hot to my ears. And the weird thing is, if I roll the volume back, say from 10 down to 6, it cleans up without losing any actual volume. It's the closest thing to a tube amp, built into a pickup, that I've ever heard. Very cool. I mean, hot.

Huh… Sounds intriguing. Would you say that the Nazgul has a lot of sizzle? Or is it more smooth? It's hard to tell from the sound clips on line.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

Well, I define heavy like either early 70s or 80s-90s Black Sabbath, which isn't a very tight sound. The bass is flabby, and it is supposed to be, as it gives slow riffs a lot of character. I never thought slow riffs sound very good with really tight pickups.

 

[Punkrot]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

Well, I define heavy like either early 70s or 80s-90s Black Sabbath, which isn't a very tight sound. The bass is flabby, and it is supposed to be, as it gives slow riffs a lot of character. I never thought slow riffs sound very good with really tight pickups.

I agree. Unfortunately what I play combines slow and fast sections—ranging anywhere from sludgecore slow to speedcore fast depending on the song—but things generally fall somewhere between 120 and 180 bpm, and rarely drop below 80 for any length of time. :-<

I found the D&G to be pretty sloppy sounding when speedpicking. The Pegasus is definitely good at high speeds—but yes, the slow "Breeeewtaaaaalllll!!!" parts are not quite as thunderous as I wish they were with the Peg on deck.

Probably some compromise is going to be in order…

If I can find a pickup that ranks around 8/10 on the brutality scale, and likewise 8/10 on the clarity scale, I'd be in heaven (and by "heaven" I mean "the bowels of sonic Armageddon," but you know what I mean). :-/

 

[Mincer]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

Yeah, so a loose pickup won't work here. You might look at something like the Custom, which can straddle that line pretty well. It has tightness, but nowhere near modern metal pickups.

 

[Chad]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

pcorn:

 

[Punkrot]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

Yeah, so a loose pickup won't work here. You might look at something like the Custom, which can straddle that line pretty well. It has tightness, but nowhere near modern metal pickups.

So it looks like, based on the suggestions on here, I'm probably looking at either the Custom or the Distortion to get into thick yet still defined territory…

Or the Custom 5, since I'm clearly obsessed with Alnico V magnets, and (probably erroneously) believe that they affect the sound of pickups in a way I like… Which apparently makes me a troll. :-<

Since this thread has been focused primarily on my bridge pickup—does that make me a bridge troll?

Also, it looks like I managed to scare off (or piss off?) everyone except the Admin… And the dude with popcorn…

*Sigh*

Anyway can I get a slow clap from someone out there?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

Don't worry about it. I didn't think you came across as troll-y.
You are probably right about the Custom or Custom 5..they are the same pickup with a different magnet. You can buy one, and a magnet for the other one, and switch them out to change the pickup types.

 

[Punkrot]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

Don't worry about it. I didn't think you came across as troll-y.
You are probably right about the Custom or Custom 5..they are the same pickup with a different magnet. You can buy one, and a magnet for the other one, and switch them out to change the pickup types.

Aw shucks… Thanks, Man.

But that sounds amazing, the magnet swappable pickup. Will the wonders of Seymour Duncan never cease?!?!?!

And just to make sure before I pull the trigger on it—you'd recommend the Custom (or Custom 5) over the Distortion?

 

[InbredJunk]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

Nobody recommended a custom 8? I can't believe it. If your an alnico fan, the a8 mag is the epitome of that sort of sound. Check it out, they are great with the custom wind.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[Punkrot]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

Nobody recommended a custom 8? I can't believe it. If your an alnico fan, the a8 mag is the epitome of that sort of sound. Check it out, they are great with the custom wind.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Actually, I think someone did mention the Custom 8… If I go with the Custom pickup which allows me to swap magnets, can I switch between ceramic, A5 and A8? If so, that would be amazing… O.O

 

[Mincer]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

Yeah, get a regular Custom. Buy a handful of magnets, like A5, 8, 2, and variations like unoriented A5, etc...they are cheap. And then you can select which one you like. Magnets are cheap.

 

[Punkrot]

Re: Pickup or Pot Change? Baritone Les Paul

Yeah, get a regular Custom. Buy a handful of magnets, like A5, 8, 2, and variations like unoriented A5, etc...they are cheap. And then you can select which one you like. Magnets are cheap.

Sounds like a win to me. Thanks for all the help, everyone. :headbang: