Pickup output

[Dreeves]

Is there a case for high output pickups in the context of using modeling amps?

With the modeling amps and software you can have as much dirt as you want. So is there any logic behind getting a higher output pickup vs a similarly voiced lower output pickup?

I’m thinking of the PATB 1,2 & 3. Similarly voiced but different levels of output. Why get one with high output and lower the ability to play cleans?

 

[chadd]

Re: Pickup output

higher output will get you more compression. some people like that, others won't

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup output

Modelling actually gives you the opportunity for crystal cleans even with high output pickups........which by far is the harder thing to do.

 

[Dreeves]

Re: Pickup output

Ok school me on how to do that

 

[jeremy]

Re: Pickup output

i dont hear the patb 1, 2, 3 as similarly voiced. high output pups tend to have a darker, thicker tone

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup output

Ok school me on how to do that

If you're replying to me.....simply setup your clean using a full clean high headroom patch - something like a JC 120 or Fender Blackface Twin. Your dirty is simply whatever filthy amp you want it to be. You can't do that sort of thing with only 1 amp in the tube world.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Pickup output

I treat using modeling amps just like the amps they are modeling. I don't like a lot of compression, so it is mostly vintage output pickups for me, no matter what amp I use.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Pickup output

Regardless of output, hot pickups have a certain voicing that's just easy to work with for high-gain scenarios. Not to say vintage output pickups are not good under lots of gain, but I have found that for my playing style, high output pickups have a certain focus, consistency, and ferocity that vintage pickups simply don't.

If the modeller is good, then it will respond like a real amp would to high output pickups. I personally find that many modern scoopy-sounding high-gain amp designs like the Dual Rectifier seem to love mid-focused pickups, which generally tend to fall in the high-output camp.

JMO.

 

[Despair]

Re: Pickup output

i dont hear the patb 1, 2, 3 as similarly voiced. high output pups tend to have a darker, thicker tone

Very much agree. PATB-1b seems much like a Parallel Axis take on the Custom 5. Only sweeter high end. PATB-2 is a Parallel Axis Distortion, only deeper, darker and hotter in basic character, but with sweet extended harmonics and reduced string pull (natural sustain) from the polepiece structure.

PATB-3 is a fairly different beast, more like a hotter '59 that didn't darken up.

There's some similarity between the PATB-1b and the PATB-3, but just like Custom 5 and '59 bridge, considerable difference, too. PATB-2 is something entirely different, one of Seymour Duncan's hottest passive pickups, and with a thick ceramic magnet. Glorious gonzo metal pickup, and while I love it for metal riffs, leads and rhythm, it doesn't compare for flexiblity with other Parallel Axis models.

Modern modellers that have sufficient headroom do respond differently to hotter pickups. But given most of them can model a lot of gain boxes and EQs, just like with a physical rig, lower output pickups tend to be more flexible, as long as you aren't overly hung up on modelling JUST the amp. If the modeller doesn't have the headroom, then you get digital clipping, or it turned down so low it's muffled. So you can wind up having to use a DI into your modeller, just to control output level and sound quality... And lose a lot of flexiblity with variable impedance inputs changing pickup interaction (a behavior seen in physical pedals and amps).

I used to only use guitar into amp, until I got Helix (Native, because of price... Though I wish I had the impedance switching input the physical units, for that last bit of realism/tweakability, particularly for fuzzes and adjusting for different pickups). These days, on the cheap I'd go with the HX Stomp, and then buy Helix Native with the discount.

Now I have simple patches, and I have ones with a dozen different compressors, ODs, distortion pedals, tube driver model, fuzzes, EQs and multiple noise gates in 2 different pannable paths before it even hits the amp model. Some of the simple ones are high gain amps, some of the crazy ones are too. And with snapshots, I change not just which effects are active, but settings on individual effects and amps. Sometimes even change what Impulse Response (speaker) is being used. So I can use a Cream for smooth leads, G12M25 for snarly rhythm, G12H30-55 for dark, barky cleanish tones, Alnico Blue for sparkly cleans, P12N or Fane with a Gilmourish OD->Fuzz->Tube Driver setup. All in one patch.

An Epiphone G-400 (Alnico Classic Plus & Alnico Classic, close to 498T/490R) or Sterling SUB Silhouette 3 behave very differently to my Ibanez RG570 with PATB-1b & JB3. Epi G-400 is clangy but sweet, and with some fiddling can get some very open, rather electroacoustic-like sounds out of the combined pickups. Sterling behaves a lot like you'd expect a low output single coil to, for most switch positions (surprising, given they are cheap ceramic singles). RG570 with PATB-1b is a lot punchier, but with surprising tubey dynamics. Just tends to get too dull when rolled down enough to get truly clean, on a patch built around a Plexi-like amp like the Trainwreck Express.

I can get solid metal sounds out of the G-400 easier than I can get smooth edge of breakup tones out of the PATB-1b. PATB-1b can do good cleans and breakup, just not with some of the amps that other pickups can, and not as easily. Difference is entirely the pickups.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Pickup output

Pickup output not only has to do with how the signal from your guitar hits your amp, but it has to do with how sensitive the pickup is to your right hand. If you are used to playing with high output pickups, you've probably got a very delicate right hand touch. Someone like me, however, who is used to playing old style single coils, probably has a heavier hand, which has been developed as a habit by having grown up needing to "push" the pickups manually using right hand force.

In other words, if you're used to playing a pickup of a certain sensitivity, then your technique will require an adjustment when you move to a pickup with more or less sensitivity, whether you are using a "real" amp or a "virtual" amp.

I always have to adjust my technique, even when moving from old-style Fender pickups to something as relatively mild as a PAF-style humbucker...but especially when moving to my guitars with pickups in the 13K range (My G&L Rampage and my Dean with Super Distortions).