Pickup Position Psychology

[Silence Kid]

Someone gave me a thought when they said the "Jazz neck has an identity crisis."

I knew what that meant; if you switch to the Jazz neck (on a bright guitar with a two octave neck) your tone almost passes for a "bridge" sound. The same applies to something like a Jaguar neck pickup (in the lead circuit) where you really just get a different (clean) sound that you can use for bridge-like riffs and such.

Then again, there are tones that are definitively 'neck.' Sometimes you switch to the neck position on a Strat because nothing else sounds like the neck position on a Strat; who cares if you can't use it the same way you would a bridge pickup. Same goes for a lot of more traditional Gibson humbucker neck tones (Slash.)

To what degree do you value getting a unique tone vs. a useable one? Do you approach your playing and thing "I want this to sound like I'm playing on the neck pickup?" Or do you just focus on what sounds best in the mix at that point?

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

I spent a year getting my neck, and the rest of my pickguard, dialed. I knew I wanted the fatness of a humbucker but single coil chime. Also some complexity so it doesn't sound only like a straight jazz guitar. End result is my #1 Duncan, A3 Seth/Ant hybrid no cover with the screws facing inward. It's dialed so it chimes to the upper limit of brightness that I want but still full enough to be punchy and jazzy with the tone knob. I think it's extremely unique and usable.

 

[gregory]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

"A Screamin' Demon in the neck makes the neck position sound like it has an identity crisis."

FTFY. To me the Jazz Neck in the neck position sound like the neck position, it just doesn't have the qualities I want for high gain lead work. It's a beautiful pickup for everything else, IMO; unless there's some kind of compatibility problem.

To answer the question, I choose the position depending on where on the neck I'm playing and how I want it to sound. I will also switch positions between lead phrases in order to distinguish one from the other.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

See, I sort of think any neck pickup with a 2 octave neck sort of has an identity crisis. The distance from the bridge is different, so it generally doesn't sound like a neck pickup to me.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

Must have been you I misquoted then; I'm playing my Soloist right now (JB/Jazz.) Really the JB seems so much woolier and the Jazz so much thinner, switching to the Jazz seems brighter; that's a bit counter-intuitive to a lot of bridge/neck pickups correlations out there. If I had to play a surf solo off-hand the Jazz is a better choice than the JB on this guitar. I don't hate the Jazz at all; it doesn't "fog up" under distortion like a lot of neck humbuckers but it's not what I would use if I wanted to sound like a "neck" pickup (though it works for those purposes better in a Strat of mine.)

I've only had Demons in the bridge pos. so can't comment on that.

 

[gregory]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

Try it sometime, especially in a bright guitar.

Speaking of paychology, I think the difference between a neck pickup in a 22-fret and 24-fret guitar is overblown, especially in 25.5" scale. What diffenence there is can be compensated with a fatter pickup or playing higher up on the neck. Seriously, what's the relative difference between the pickup sitting back 1" if you shift your fretting hand up a fret or two?!?

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

Bet it would sound better with a bone nut HAHA!! Sounds like a great combo

 

[Mincer]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

Try it sometime, especially in a bright guitar.

Speaking of paychology, I think the difference between a neck pickup in a 22-fret and 24-fret guitar is overblown, especially in 25.5" scale. What diffenence there is can be compensated with a fatter pickup. Seriously, what's the relative difference between the pickup sitting back 1" if you shift your fretting hand up a fret or two?!?

To those it matters to, and have tried many ways to compensate for this...it is a big deal. If it isn't to you, that's cool. But I know for what I need from a neck pickup, it needs to be in the correct place for me.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

I personally like neck pickups in 24-fret guitars better. They sound less boomy/muddy to my ears. Each to his own.

I like neck pickups that sound like neck pickups, but that are not a complete boomy mess in the context of a guitar with a bridge pickup that I like.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

Try it sometime, especially in a bright guitar.

What diffenence there is can be compensated with a fatter pickup or playing higher up on the neck. Seriously, what's the relative difference between the pickup sitting back 1" if you shift your fretting hand up a fret or two?!?

O yeah sure, just play higher up the neck. It should be pretty easy. After all, guitar is linear like piano.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

To answer the question, the neck pickups on my 24-fret guitars sound like a neck pickup should, smooth and classy.

Either I am more concerned about playing than overthinking 2-cm (that's almost an inch to you in the US) or my ears are made of Valvoline can.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

To those it matters to, and have tried many ways to compensate for this...it is a big deal. If it isn't to you, that's cool. But I know for what I need from a neck pickup, it needs to be in the correct place for me.

Me too.....there is nothing that can be done if the neck position pickup is not producing those nice flutey tones that being under the 24th fret gives you.

 

[gregory]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

guitar is linear like piano

...and the earth is also flat

If someone knows exactly what the tonality of each fretted note on a string will sound like because the outside coil sits under the 2-octave position of the unfretted string then kudos. In addition to the pickup location he should also be able to tell the precise gauge of the string, scale length and tension just as easily since they are all interrelated.

Alas, none of it matters because it is simply impossible to get a "flutey" tone from a 24-fret guitar no matter where on the neck someone plays? Likewise, all notes, either fretted or open will sound flutey so long as the outer coil sits under the 2-octave position of the unfretted note. Will a neck pickup placed under the 22nd fret sound less flutey or more flutey irrespective of the fretted note?

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

Try it sometime, especially in a bright guitar.

Speaking of paychology, I think the difference between a neck pickup in a 22-fret and 24-fret guitar is overblown, especially in 25.5" scale. What diffenence there is can be compensated with a fatter pickup or playing higher up on the neck. Seriously, what's the relative difference between the pickup sitting back 1" if you shift your fretting hand up a fret or two?!?

It doesn't work like that, for the same reason a neck pickup on a 22 fret guitar doesn't sound even more "neck-like" when you play a couple frets higher on that type of guitar. When you fret the guitar, the harmonic nodes and anti nodes above the pickup change, but the fundamental frequency also changes. So you're never changing one thing or the other, you're always changing both in tandem, so the comb filtering continues to knock out the same frequencies. That's why a neck pickup produces the timbre of a "neck pickup", no matter where you fret.

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

I gotta somewhat disagree. The bridge pup sits at the end of the string. The arc of vibration will always be smaller there unless you fret at say around the 24 fret or so. There the neck pup usually has a much lower output and the string has become so much smaller, the difference is less vast

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

Greg, why do some players like to flip their neck pup? Is there a tonal difference or is it a placebo? I believe in the former

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

I gotta somewhat disagree. The bridge pup sits at the end of the string. The arc of vibration will always be smaller there unless you fret at say around the 24 fret or so. There the neck pup usually has a much lower output and the string has become so much smaller, the difference is less vast

I like the way neck tone tightens up a bit when you go high. But to me it still always sounds like the neck pickup- I don't spend enough time at the extreme top of the fretboard to notice it becoming actually bridgelike in character.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

Personally I prefer my neck tones to sound like a neck pickup, not an alternate bridge tone. Usually choose a slightly darker model in 24 fret guitars. Slash neck suits me better than a JazzN for that kind of axe. But there are exceptions- one of my favorite neck tones for more than thirty years has been from an '87 PRS- a 24 fret guitar with bright, exceptionally snappy T&B pickups. Its neck tone is almost Stratlike when driven hard, rich yet amazingly detailed when rolled back. I also have a couple of very vintage-toned neck buckers in 24¾" scale axes that are warm/crisp/chimey and not particularly thick sounding. A couple of them have A3 mags. I favor P90 neck tone too and three of my LPs have P90s at the neck. Another LP does have a JazzN. None of them sounds or feels much like the bridge position.

IMO a lot of it comes down to style and repertoire. I don't do much high-gain chord work, and when I do it's not on the neck pickup. If I did I might tend towards tighter/brighter neck humbuckers. Like that old PRS neck; it's a true standout. I'm told the 85/15s use a similar design though I haven't owned any of those. But as it is, for me any really gainy stuff on the neck pickup is lead work. I'm fine with the Slash neck, various A2/A3 pickups and 59Ns. Never had excessive looseness unless I was deliberately seeking it.

It is surprising, though, just how much difference a small change in pickup placement can make. Many years ago I moved the lead pickup in a Floydcaster a couple of millimeters farther from the bridge and the difference was quite remarkable. Warmer, fatter tone, and a much richer solo voice out of the same old T-top. All from moving the pickup a little less than ¼". Of course, that move represented a bigger percentage of the distance-from-anchor point than moving a neck pickup even by a full inch. Still, I've never forgotten how big an improvement it made.

 

[gregory]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

It doesn't work like that, for the same reason a neck pickup on a 22 fret guitar doesn't sound even more "neck-like" when you play a couple frets higher on that type of guitar. When you fret the guitar, the harmonic nodes and anti nodes above the pickup change, but the fundamental frequency also changes. So you're never changing one thing or the other, you're always changing both in tandem, so the comb filtering continues to knock out the same frequencies. That's why a neck pickup produces the timbre of a "neck pickup", no matter where you fret.

But it does work like that: the voicing/quality changes as you move up the neck. You said so much yourself. You don't get the same voicing on the same notes, and if you're that specific about how each note is supposed to sound on a specific guitar with a specific set of strings at a specific tuning then so be it. If the difference between the two sensing points relative to every fretted note is so critical then the same will have to apply with guitars with different scale lengths. We all know you can only get a flutey tone with a Strat, or was that a Les Paul?

I've made my case and was going to let it go after Dave posted.

 

[gregory]

Re: Pickup Position Psychology

Greg, why do some players like to flip their neck pup? Is there a tonal difference or is it a placebo? I believe in the former

I imagine it makes a bigger difference with dual resonant designs. I also believe people who express a preference for the orientation of a symmetrically sound pickup at the bridge. I believe I did when using an SH-6N in the bridge, which ultimately led me to put short hex bolts in the screw coil. So I see no reason to think it doesn't also happen at the neck, even though I go with convention.

tl;dr:
I don't know why people do what they do and I don't believe it is placebo.