Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

[Inflames626]

It may be my imagination, but I feel like just 5-10 years ago one could buy a pickup for roughly $60-80. I now see them routinely going for $100, and that's passive pickups.

Meanwhile, especially on used sites, active pickup prices have plunged. EMGs and, to a certain extent, Blackouts, used to be considered premium upgrades. I see many Blackout *sets* going for $100 used, while passives seem to be increasing in price again. New Pearly Gates go online for about $100 each.

On top of this, market wide among players, there seems to be a resurgence in interest in PAFs and a fatter, vintage sound. Beyond the X series (which is just regular EMGs in 18 volts), EMG's response to Blackouts seems to have been the Modern Classic 57/66 line, which seems to try to combine qualities of the 81/85 with a passive PAF sound. To my ears, they are extremely dark. DiMarzio for its part seems to be pushing its D-Activator and D-Activator X lines, which seem to mirror the 81/85 and 81x/85x lines respectively, even down to the name, triggering the association of the X name to a product line variant that has a fuller, darker tone than the non X line. Not saying they sound like EMGs, but the naming seems to encourage one to think that D-Activators are similar to EMGs without being active.

For my part, Blackouts and 81/85s are equal once the EMGs are in 18 volts--just a matter of taste. The Blackouts have more fullness, low end, dynamics, and touch response. The EMGs, especially the 81 in 18 volts, sit in a mix well and cut through a bit more (sorry, not an 85 fan--that low end is a bit too loose for me). As a result, I keep my higher tuned active guitars EMG equipped, and my lower tuned active guitars Blackouts equipped.

I thought I'd ask if anyone else has noticed similar patterns as far as the pickup market.

Edit: Last minute thought. Builders seemed to have noticed increased costs on even their mid level instruments now. Ibanez's Peter Iwers (In Flames) signature bass has Ibby branded pickups, I believe, and not the usual EMG load out. I think it's solidly in the mid price range, going for somewhere around $700-800. This may be pointless if OEM stuff is increasing in quality, but for the brand conscious, nothing less will do than name brand stuff.

Thanks.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

Er, thanks for the newsflash, but inflation has been going on for centuries now. Its hardly a new occurrence.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

Er, thanks for the newsflash, but inflation has been going on for centuries now. Its hardly a new occurrence.

Doesn't necessarily have to be the case, however. Edgecrusher brought my attention to neck thru guitars like newer Jackson Soloists that are going for below $1000. I don't recall seeing neck thrus for that cheap in the 90s.

It also doesn't explain why active pickup prices seem to be dropping, especially in used markets, when active pickups used to retail new for a bit more than passives because of the assumption that the active sound was a premium upgrade or somehow more costly to produce due to the internal preamp.

You also have recent innovations like the OFR 1000 models that are supposed to bring the same quality and functionality of the OFRs at the same price point, even though most of the savings come from using Korean instead of German labor.

Another example is 7 and 8 string guitars dropping in price, and quality generally improving in the lower end of the market ($200-500).

Therefore, it doesn't have to be that good stuff gets more expensive. In some cases, good stuff might get cheaper. This is true right now if one is an active pickup fan in the used market, based on my research.

Another theory I have is perhaps the EMG OEM glut of the 90s and 00s encouraged players to remove their EMGs and sell them at a considerable loss as tastes shifted away from active pickups, lowering prices on the used market.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

It's called technology. The ability to produce quality instruments with extremely tight tolerances has become more available. That and the pendulum swing from desire of an active sound in the late 90' to mid 00's back to a preference for passives, especially from high end dealers.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

Thanks, Demanic.

Then again, if tech has advanced, shouldn't that make it cheaper to make older passive designs? I can understand new pickups like the Sentient and Nazgul and Black Winters being changed more for because they are new, premium designs.

I see a ton of JBs, some going for $30-40 used.

Anyway, was just wondering if anyone thinks I've noticed a convincing pattern, as opposed to "everything's just inflating."

 

[SoundAt11]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

staying on pickup pricing, it seems like Duncan pricing on new pickups (and used ones) has been relatively flat over the past 10 years.
What's baffling to me is Dimarzio pricing. New Dimarzio's used to be priced $5-10 less than a similar Duncan, now they're priced the same or higher. Even goofier is the pricing of the used models. 10 years ago, I could pick up old Super Distortions, PAF's, Dual Sounds, etc for maybe $30 in good condition. Now, the old models are often $100 on eBay. Weird.....
EMG's definitely have gone down in value on the used market. That could be a glut of them, the fact that there is competition (Blackouts), and that people are moving away from that sound. 5-10 years ago, you had a lot of people wanting the Metallica sound or the Zakk sound and buying the EMG sets. That may not be the case as much now.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

Thanks, Demanic.

Then again, if tech has advanced, shouldn't that make it cheaper to make older passive designs? I can understand new pickups like the Sentient and Nazgul and Black Winters being changed more for because they are new, premium designs.

I see a ton of JBs, some going for $30-40 used.

Anyway, was just wondering if anyone thinks I've noticed a convincing pattern, as opposed to "everything's just inflating."

The price of raw materials goes up, the price of labour goes up, and there is no gain in technology that will make winding on the same machine using the same technique as it has been done for the last 50 years any cheaper.

As to the guitars.....you open up new markets making guitars in Indonesia and China that produce at a different pricepoint and yes, it will introduce a whole new baseline to prices. If you then actually decide you want to do an apples to apples comparison, you'll probably find the price of the the more expensive Jacksons have gone up like all other things.

And the secondhand market is all supply and demand.....a totally different pricing structure to new.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

Whatever. Newer good stuff is available for less cash. People crave older "vintage" stuff so the prices go up. Were those $30 and $40 JB's MJ wound? Maybe JB's are a bad example just because there are so many of them out there, that in and of itself a tribute to it's popularity.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

The market is saturated with mainstream actives, such as the 81/85 set and Duncan Blackouts. Half of EMG's lineup has been around for 30+ years already, plus there are so many guitar manufacturers offering EMGs and/or Blackouts in nearly all of their mid-level production models ::cough::Schecter::cough::Charvel::cough, that it's really the JB all over again...over many years being on the market and being a popular OEM model, the JB's resale value plunged because they stayed so readily available.

As for DiMarzio raising their prices, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. If I were DiMarzio, I'd want to be seen as "comparable" to Duncan and price plays into that perception. It's like Toyota vs Honda to me. I don't WANT to spend more on a pickup and I strongly prefer Duncans (and Hondas) 95% of the time, but DiMarzio has spent the past few years really building their market presence and has developed a good deal of brand loyalty (although DiMarzio's "forum" sucks!).

Regarding prices across the board, the demand for pickup materials has increased, so prices naturally followed. Look at all of the small pickup builders that have flooded the market in the past 5 years and all of the businesses that popped up to cater to them. Higher demand for core materials = higher production costs for both the small and large builder. I wouldn't be surprised if Duncan raises their prices on most models in the next year or two. They do have production quantity and steady sales working for them, so we'll see if they can keep prices in check for a while longer...

Vintage is vintage. 10 years ago, a pickup made in the mid '80s wasn't considered "vintage". Today, it is. Harder to get = price goes up. Just the way it is.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

I find when I am not in the market for something, the price is very low but when I am in the market for it the price is very high. Also, when I am selling something the prices are all very low but when I am not selling it the prices are always high...

I would say that I think the used market for actives is not as high as passives. I know a lot of people are going to the "vintage" sound and maybe that is part of why actives don't hold their value as much...could just be a current trend.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

I have noticed that about used active pickups.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

I've noticed DiMarzios going up in price as well, to my disappointment. I think everybody builds great models and everybody builds so so models. The slightly cheaper price of DMZ was my main temptation to try them, but with almost every passive at close to the same price now, there isn't much difference among them save whether you like the tone. Very competitive market indeed.

One would think that used DMZs would be cheaper since the retail versions were at a lower price, but those may already have been sold through. I think for people who buy new and then sell used, they're taking bigger losses than ever before.

As far as boutique winders driving price up, I'm not so sure. Demand could increase prices but also production and competitive forces to keep prices down in response to that. I guess I look at raw materials production as being something where you could make a moderate profit on fewer sales, or increase production and make a slimmer profit on more sales, making up the difference. That would encourage cheaper raw materials production processes since there is more winder demand out there than there used to be.

I have to wonder, as well, if the pickup market is saturated because, for someone who knows what they're doing and with a bit of capital to buy machines, it's fairly easy to do and the profit margins are higher compared to other parts of the industry. I don't think sourcing metal is as expensive as sourcing wood. At the same time, pickup builders and others have to pay for the main thing that's going up--labor costs rising to keep up with living costs. Hopefully it will be much easier for them to do this than for struggling guitar builders who are finding it harder to find quality wood and are thus keep their prices down.

All conjecture. But I was hoping others had noticed what I had noticed. It would just be nice to find sets of passives for $100-120 too.

For that reason, price, you won't find me on what my friend calls the "Bareknuckle hipster bandwagon." Their casings look cool though. British taxes and import duties must be a factor in those pickups' price.

Regarding Demanic's post about the 80s being vintage, I don't think it's true vintage, yet, although stuff from that era is definitely becoming popular to 80s metal fans like me who like old ESP/Jackson/Charvel/BC Rich/Ibanzes from that period. It's not considered the same value as 50-70s Fender/Gibsons, though. I see 80s Charvels going for $200 or so.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

I don't think guitars from the '80s will ever reach quite the status and value of 1950s/1960s instruments. You're comparing a time when electric guitars were just grabbing hold of the mainstream, when there were only a handful of brands on the market and most products were unique, to a time when there were hundreds of brands diluting the market with very similar offerings, most production left the U.S. and we saw the rise of the guitar aftermarket segment like no time before.

As far as "vintage", keep in mind that 1987 is equally as "vintage" now as "1959" was in 1987!

 

[Inflames626]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

masta' c, I agree, except where I disagree with vintage 50s-early 70s purists is the 80s were a great time for trying out new styles and additional features. For example, I love finding old Fender Japan stuff from the 80s. You just get more value for your dollar as far as many of them being set up with Floyds and such.

I don't want to say every guitar I wish to own needs to look like a BC Rich, but if you favor a more aggressive look, even slightly, aside from the V, Explorer, and Firebird, there aren't a lot of things out there from the 50s-70s.

And that whole classic rock thing from Elvis to the Beatles to the Stones, Dylan, Cream, Hendrix, Yardbirds, Zep, and so on has been done to death. They were being commemorated in the 1980s and they're still being commemorated now. It never ends. That period will remain popular as long as the bulk of the American population remains in that age range, but I'd like to see new players move beyond the 1957-1975 musical era.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

Regarding Demanic's post about the 80s being vintage, I don't think it's true vintage, yet, although stuff from that era is definitely becoming popular to 80s metal fans like me who like old ESP/Jackson/Charvel?BC Rich/Ibanzes from that period. It's not considered the same value as 50-70s Fender/Gibsons, though. I see 80s Charvels going for $200 or so.

When I see an old Kramer or Charvel Jackson for $100-$200 I don't know if I should laugh or have a moment of silence. People pay that much for starter guitar packs that usually are pretty junky...not that a $150 single pickup Kramer is the best guitar in the world its just funny the economics behind it all.

I don't think guitars from the '80s will ever reach quite the status and value of 1950s/1960s instruments. You're comparing a time when electric guitars were just grabbing hold of the mainstream, when there were only a handful of brands on the market and most products were unique, to a time when there were hundreds of brands diluting the market with very similar offerings, most production left the U.S. and we saw the rise of the guitar aftermarket segment like no time before. As far as "vintage", keep in mind that 1987 is equally as "vintage" now as "1959" was in 1987!

Good point. I do think the original San Dimas guitars (not copies or 80's Charvels but the real deal San Dimas guitars) have a similar status as the 1950s/60s but not the same value.

Back onto pickups, I know they are a lot of boutique pickups coming on the market now...I haven't tried then but I was looking into Tone Emporium. They have great reviews and sound great on their demos. I am not aware of boutique active pickups–not saying they aren't out there but it seems to me a lot of the "boutique" stuff is going for the vintage style/sound.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

treyhaislip, I actually see those guitars as a pretty good deal as long as there's not an issue with the neck or fretwork. Putting on an OFR and some decent pickups might cost you $450 at most. In theory you could have a guitar with great specs for $700.

That said, some of the starter pack guitars are very, very bad. My hope with picking up used Charvels is that they're cheaper because they were a mass produced instrument and the demand for more aggressive body styles is not sufficient to support higher prices.

Also, some 80s guitars just look kind of funky. They are similar to how a Jackson Dinky would look now but the horns tend to be thicker and the edges less beveled. Kramer Pacers are what I have in mind. Not a big fan of that look, as it isn't very sleek or elegant.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

treyhaislip, I actually see those guitars as a pretty good deal as long as there's not an issue with the neck or fretwork. Putting on an OFR and some decent pickups might cost you $450 at most. In theory you could have a guitar with great specs for $700.

That said, some of the starter pack guitars are very, very bad. My hope with picking up used Charvels is that they're cheaper because they were a mass produced instrument and the demand for more aggressive body styles is not sufficient to support higher prices.

Also, some 80s guitars just look kind of funky. They are similar to how a Jackson Dinky would look now but the horns tend to be thicker and the edges less beveled. Kramer Pacers are what I have in mind. Not a big fan of that look, as it isn't very sleek or elegant.

I agree–the old Charvels and Kramers are definitely potential awesome guitars with some upgrades. My only problem is when you upgrade them with $400 worth of upgrades people still only wanna pay the $100-$200. lol

I had a student with a Squire starter pack that was actually played very nice but not something I would put a couple hundred bucks into upgrading...

I actually like the look of the Pacers–unique take on the Strat body design. I like the thicker design of the 80's Charvels compared to the Fender Strat.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

When I see an old Kramer or Charvel Jackson for $100-$200 I don't know if I should laugh or have a moment of silence. People pay that much for starter guitar packs that usually are pretty junky...not that a $150 single pickup Kramer is the best guitar in the world its just funny the economics behind it all....I do think the original San Dimas guitars (not copies or 80's Charvels but the real deal San Dimas guitars) have a similar status as the 1950s/60s but not the same value.

+1 on both counts

Back onto pickups, I know they are a lot of boutique pickups coming on the market now...I haven't tried then but I was looking into Tone Emporium. They have great reviews and sound great on their demos. I am not aware of boutique active pickups–not saying they aren't out there but it seems to me a lot of the "boutique" stuff is going for the vintage style/sound.

Just so you are aware, Tone Emporium pickups are NOT wound in Canada! They are very similar to ToneRider pickups in that they are "handwound" by a human, but produced using cheaper labor and material costs in Asia and then imported to Canada. That's how they keep their prices well below U.S. and Canada-based boutique winders. Nothing wrong with the pickups...just thought you might like to know

 

[Inflames626]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

A bit off topic but it's my thread so that's okay--yeah the shorter scale length starter packs are the worst. You can't keep them in tune.

Good point on the resale.

I only buy cheap guitars and upgrade them if I'm positive I'll keep them forever.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Pickup price inflation--anyone noticed?

Just so you are aware, Tone Emporium pickups are NOT wound in Canada! They are very similar to ToneRider pickups in that they are "handwound" by a human, but produced using cheaper labor and material costs in Asia and then imported to Canada. That's how they keep their prices well below U.S. and Canada-based boutique winders. Nothing wrong with the pickups...just thought you might like to know

Why those Conniving Canadians! lol That actually makes sense...I had wondered how they could be so cheap on the prices.